Finishing the racecar blog. Yes?

[Horsewidower]

Latest update: Blew it up, still sitting in the trailer.


Bob

[MikeFleming]

2.5 Years? That's gotta be alot of pics for sure (kinda like my collection!).

I'm certainly interested in seeing the progression.

[Otto Man]

Me Too
What have you got?

[Raven855]

I would be interested. I don't know anything about breaking the rules:rolleyes: Pictures are always welcome. Whats the status of the project?

[svobrown]

I have been watching your car for some time. Want to see it on the track too.

[Ken Potter]

If you want to gauge interest I would highly recommend at least a few teaser pics or maybe even a link?

[Ken Potter]

Very cool. I'd be interested in the process for flairs. Also the wiring, fuel system, and cockpit details. I have a 92 coupe sitting in storage that will be built someday.

[svobud]

Horsewidower - not trying to run you off, but you would probably find more interest for your 2.3T powdered coupe story on turboford.net - if you want to share it here - you'll need to keep it in the LOUNGE section.

[Horsewidower]

If you don't mind Bud, I'd like to keep it in the lounge here. I think there are more road racing/open track folks here than at Turboford. I understand that this is an SVO site and that's why I asked.

Bob

[MikeFleming]

Horse - the thing with the Lounge is threads get dropped after an inactivity period - they're not archived or saved forever like technical threads.

So someone will have to 'touch' it every couple months, iirc.

[Horsewidower]

Thanks Mike for the warning. I hope to be touching it more than every couple of months. I'll see if I can get some of the early build stuff together this weekend and have it posted, as well as a list of things I have to get done.

Thanks everyone for your interest.

Bob

[Horsewidower]

Here is a slide show of the early part of the build.

http://s136.photobucket.com/albums/q181/horsewidower/Early%20Build%20photos/?action=view&current=1171948139.pbw

We began our slippery slope by purchasing a "track ready" '89 coupe roller to stuff a 2.3 turboford into for the NASA American Iron series. We drove 28 hours up and back to Vancouver, Washington and picked up the car. It looked pretty good, but it was only the beginning. The car had been updated with a wilwood brake system, updated springs, struts and shocks. The 8.8 had been augmented with 9" bearings and retainers, 3.73s and a girdle. A panhard rod and someone's adjustable lower control arms had been added to the rear suspension. The car had been stripped of much of the interior, which was very helpful.

Our goal was to make the car as light as possible in order to use the weight break allowed under the rules. We may have taken it to an extreme! We also found that we didn't like the roll cage, which began an entire series of upgrades to the car. I lucked into working with a number of former Comptech employees, including a turbo expert, their former head fabricator and the guy that was in charge of wiring and tuning their indy car engines. He was a blast and would tell stories of working with the Gurney GTP Toyota effort. Mike, the fabricator, was at Comptech during the GTP lights period and could tell us about working with Parker Johnstone and James Weaver. It was a lot of fun working with the guys.

Of the original car we currently only use:
1. The roof, floorpan, firewall and frame system.
2. The rear axle, and panhard rod
3. The brake calipers

In retrospect, we should have just thrown the engine and tranny in it and gone racing. :doh:

Bob

[Horsewidower]

We more than went over the top on the suspension on this car. Many of the pieces are one-off and we designed the geometry with Bill Mitchell's Wingeo3 chassis program. I'm also not a proponent of any one company's products, we mixed and matched as we saw fit. On the west coast, Griggs' equipped cars were winning most of the AI races, but MM was just getting into supporting and winning races. I really like Bruce Griggs, but MMs customer support and technical help is far superior.

Here is the list of suspension pieces:

Rear:
Griggs World Challenge LCAs
Owner designed three link with adjustable front mount.
Koni aluminum adjustable coilover shocks
MM panhard rod

Front:
Griggs K-member, upper and lower (modified for different ball joint) control arms, shock mounts, bumpsteer kit and anti-roll bar.
Sweet Spindles
Howe hubs
Howe low-friction height-adjustable ball joints
Koni aluminum adjustable coilover shocks
Flaming River Manual Rack.


We switched to the circle track racing spindles and hubs for a couple of reasons:
We couldn't source the Griggs dropped spindles, their supplier was having trouble getting them the product. After running the standard, undropped spindle through the computer programs it was immediately apparent that the SLA did not work at our designed ride height. We also weren't thrilled with racing on production car, unmaintainable hubs. They would need to be timed out (thrown away) on a regular basis. And the spindle nut itself is a $45 item!! Going to the spindles and hubs we chose, meant using an overbuilt part for the application, a readily available supply and a maintainable unit. They created their own problems though.

The front track was increased 3 inches on each side.
The ball joints had to be changed to match the spindle.
The lower control arms had to be modified to take the new ball joints.
The front wheels had to be modified, they now have 7" of back spacing.
The fenders had to be mounted further out to cover the increased track.

I can't find the rear three link photos, but I'll add them either when they are found or when I take a couple new ones.

Bob

[indiana dave]

Wow... Project looks nice. Grat worksmansip. Can't wait to see how it performs.
I agree with you. You definately have a better audience here. Turboford is a nice site, but they're more interested in junkyard turbo tricks amd swapping 2.3 turbos into Rangers, etc. than no holds barred road-racing efforts.

[Horsewidower]

Here are a couple of photos of the three-link upper attachment.

This is the second attempt at an attachment point. The initial build was shown at the corner-carvers site. A couple of AI racers from the mid-west didn't like that attachement, which used a bar that ran through the floorpan. The rules when the initial build occured allowed you to section the floorpan if that sectioning was used for a suspension attachment point for the third-link. That rule changed during our build, and as a result of the protest made to the rule makers, we were required to come up with a different front attachment. The result is what you see here, which frankly is a better solution than the first one. Now the upper and lower arms are exactly the same length.

[Horsewidower]

The bodywork is an amalgamation of Maier Racing flares and five-star urethane front cover and hood. Below are the pictures of the Maier flares. They are supposed to be 3", but on the rear we found that one of them was 4 (maier said they didn't make a 4, "so we must have mounted it wrong"??) It threw us for a while when we were centering the rear axle, we'd center it based on the centerline of the car and then look at it and measure from the flare lip and think we were an inch off. Nope, it was the flare.

The front fenders, which incorporate the flare, were mounted out an extra 3 inches to cover the new front suspension.

Rear pics

[Horsewidower]

I don't currently have pictures of the hood and bumper cover, but that should come pretty soon.

[Ken Potter]

That is great. Thanks for sharing them.

[MikeFleming]

How do I hate clecos?? Let me count the ways....

[Horsewidower]

The brake system is made up of Tilton master cylinders, 3/16 stainless steel hardlines, -3 flex lines, Wilwood superlight and dynalite calipers and coleman and wilwood rotors. We have a bit of a problem with the calipers because they have the same piston area on the front and back. We've tried to cure the problem with a proportioning valve, we'll see if it works when the car is running. As usual, everything does not fit, the calipers on the rear will require either the mounting bracket to be modified or the calipers machined to center the rotor. Unfortunately, pretty normal on this build.

Here are some pics:

[KarlRodg88]

awesome build up horse. so youre gonna try and run the shelby club thing at thunderhill? if everything goes right my dad and i should be there with our tc (the one in my avitar). weve done a whole bunch this week ps and oil coolers, some other stuff and we flared the front fenders today (way harder than it looks). anyway awesome car, hope to see it up there.
-Karl

[vrinner]

awesome build up horse. so youre gonna try and run the shelby club thing at thunderhill? if everything goes right my dad and i should be there with our tc (the one in my avitar). weve done a whole bunch this week ps and oil coolers, some other stuff and we flared the front fenders today (way harder than it looks). anyway awesome car, hope to see it up there.
-Karl

Can you send some more picks of how your routed the brake lines and the fuel lines? I'm not ready just yet for that but will be needing to that that fairly soon.

[Horsewidower]

Thanks Karl. We'll see if we make it, we have been waiting over 4 weeks for the parts we needed fabbed for the 5.5 clutch, part delays have just been a headache on this build.

Vrinner, three of the pictures above show the hardlines, everthing else is braided stainless flex lines. I'll see if I can get one of the master cylinders and the pedal box. I'll also get some shots of the fuel lines. We have 1/2" stainless running through the interior with aeroquip type flex lines to the fuel cell, fuel pump and fuel rail.

The post with the three pics of the calipers has disappeared, they are below.

[KarlRodg88]

vrinner, we cut a hole int he trunk above the tank and ran steel braid lines inside electrical conduit through the middle of the car, same witht eh brake lines, and the prop valve is right behind the shifter. dont have any pics and doesnt look the prettiest but it gets the job done.

[Horsewidower]

Vrinner, what are you using for a gas tank and bulkhead?

[vrinner]

Vrinner, what are you using for a gas tank and bulkhead?

To simplify things, I'm pretty sure I'm going with a fuel cell that mounts in the stock location so I dont have to cut the floor board up and deal with a bulk head. Never having built a race car, I'm pretty much asking for the advice and recommendations of others. I'd certainly be willing to go the route that others have done, I just dont know how to do it. :(

[Horsewidower]

That's a $2500 solution. It's an excellent one, very low CG for the tank and gas, you don't need to create a bulkhead and I believe you can use the stock gas filler.

Here are some pictures of my installation.

The first is of the fuel cell, filter and pump (its a 22 gallon tank). It sits approximately where the old spare tire well was located. It sits down into the cage we built for it in picture number 2. Picture 3 and 4 show the stainless steel feed and return lines. Picture 5 shows where the lines come into the engine compartment on the left side of the picture.

[vrinner]

That's a $2500 solution. It's an excellent one, very low CG for the tank and gas, you don't need to create a bulkhead and I believe you can use the stock gas filler.

Here are some pictures of my installation.

The first is of the fuel cell, filter and pump (its a 22 gallon tank). It sits approximately where the old spare tire well was located. It sits down into the cage we built for it in picture number 2. Picture 3 and 4 show the stainless steel feed and return lines. Picture 5 shows where the lines come into the engine compartment on the left side of the picture.

So is it better to run the fuel lines through the passenger compartment or did you just do that because of the type of fuel cell used? Same goes for the brake lines too? I would imagine if I put the pump and filter in the passenger compartment, I'd have to do a bulkhead as well. Or how about putting the pump and filter in where the spare tire was?

Also on that shifter, is that something you can buy or did you fabricate it yourself? 2nd to 3rd is always a stretch for me, especially on those right hand turns.

[Horsewidower]

I run the fuel lines through the passenger compartment to protect them. Same for the brake lines. The rear brake lines run down the center than split to each side, that way they don't heat up from being attached to the axle.

I think the fuel cell you intend to use can be set up for an in-tank pump, which would be the preferred route. If you decide to use the spare tire well, you can easily create a bulk head out of aluminum to cover the top.

The shifter is from Mustangs Plus in Stockton.

http://www.mustangsplus.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=MPFMP&Product_Code=10490

[vrinner]

I run the fuel lines through the passenger compartment to protect them. Same for the brake lines. The rear brake lines run down the center than split to each side, that way they don't heat up from being attached to the axle.

I think the fuel cell you intend to use can be set up for an in-tank pump, which would be the preferred route. If you decide to use the spare tire well, you can easily create a bulk head out of aluminum to cover the top.

The shifter is from Mustangs Plus in Stockton.

Thanks...this really helps me out. Damn...I wish some of you guys were closer to me.

[NsTyFoX]

mier racing fenders look so badass:cheers:

[Meotchh]

Hey Vince I'm not sure how much work you want to do on the fuel cell but Fuel Safe makes a direct drop in using the stock filler neck as well.

http://www.fuelsafe.com/mustang.htm

[vrinner]

Hey Vince I'm not sure how much work you want to do on the fuel cell but Fuel Safe makes a direct drop in using the stock filler neck as well.

http://www.fuelsafe.com/mustang.htm

Those are the ones I was looking at. And at 22 gallons, sounds like we need to have an enduro!

[Horsewidower]

Yep a lot of fuel. We went 22 also because we would like to hit a couple of the Western Enduro races run by NASA. You can always run a 1/2 tank but you can't run a tank and a half!!

The only issue I see with those tanks is (other than cost) that it limits how low you can set up your chassis. If you maintain a sane ride height, you should be fine. Given that you are running a stock spindle in the front, you probably shouldn't be running less than 5" at the rocker, but you'll have to check your geometry for the front end and then set the height. Then set the rearend height so that you have 1/2* to 1* rake. Whatever you do, make sure the rear lower control arm pivot point at the axle is lower than the front pivot point at the chassis. You probably know all these things so disregard my pedantic ramblings, if so.

Bob

[Horsewidower]

Here's the latest. We just got back the stuff we needed modified for the clutch and throw-out bearing. As usual, things didn't fit as planned in their original configuration. We purchased a Tilton adjustable hydraulic throw-out bearing, (the only vendor that had one for a t-5) and a Quartermaster 5.5 pro double disc clutch and lightweight flywheel. They didn't like each other.

In order to make everything work, we had to lengthen the sleeve on the throw-out bearing so that it would actually touch the fingers on the clutch and we had to make a spacer to space the flywheel out from the crankshaft so that the splines in the transmission shaft would properly engage the clutch discs. While we will run this in the mule motor, which will have a limited time in the car during the shake down, we will have to use dowels as drive pins for the spacer and flywheel when we get to the race motor. Well, here are the pics:

[Horsewidower]

Rest of the pics:

[Henson]

Horse- Is your fuel pump loud?
I have an exteranal inline pump. I’m currently using an intake pick up tube. The pump is loud. I need to revisit the fuel system sometime soon. Ideally, I would like to do something similar to your set up. The fox fuel safe is the easiest solution though very expensive.

I don’t like bulk heads. Does the track allow a “trap door” like cover to cover the fuel cell?

Sometime I think it would easier to just use a rear sump. How do I quiet the pump with out overheating?
What pump are you using? Is that a check valve I see? Insulation?

[Henson]

I’m going T5 G-force dog bone with 0.9 5th. They use 26 spline vs 10 spline. Can you get it in 26 spline?

What kit or part numbers?

Edit:
Found it. Though you can give me the inside scope!
http://www.circletrack.com/techarticles/clutch_install_tech_how_to/

How does the petal feel? I don’t like hydraulic clutches. I wonder how yours will feel. What bell house are you using? I assume adapting small block to 2.3. What’s the going rate for this clutch system?

[Horsewidower]

See the pm on the gas tank issue.

Yes there is a check valve, its a 255 walbro. There is no insulation, but it does have vibration mounts.

[Horsewidower]

Its a lot like that one, but its not a button clutch. Quartermaster has the full set up for the "Pinto." Tilton has the hydraulic throwout bearing. The full set up is north of $1200.

Yes they have clutch discs with the proper splines; make sure you give them the proper spline count and diameter.

I can't remember if I bought the stuff from Coleman or Stockcar Products. I'll check and get back to you.

The bellhousing is a standard 2.3. Its been machined so that the starter is placed properly after the addition of the spacer.

I think the hydraulic clutch is reliable. Since I don't yet have it set up, I don't know whether or not I'll like the feel.

Bob

[Horsewidower]

Series 5.5 Clutch & Flywheel Assemblies
Part No. Discs Description Spline Weight

29529863 2 Ford Pinto 2000/2300 cc 1" x 23 12.1

http://www.racingclutches.com/content/product.asp

BOB'S NOTE: Make sure that you have them send the correct spline and diameter for the clutch discs. I requested the 1 1/16th X 10 spline but still received the 1 X 23. We also spaced the flywheel out .225 with a steel spacer to more fully engage the transmission shaft with the clutch disc splines.

You need to measure your own application and determine what you need to make it work for you. This is not a plug and play.

Here is the hydraulic throw out assembly.

http://www.tiltonracing.com/content.php?page=hydraulic2

Again, not a plug and play, we had to extend the sleeve that fits in the bearing by about 1" to get it to work with the quartermaster clutch.

Is this all worth it? I don't know yet, the entire clutch and flywheel assembly weighs 12lbs, which should allow the motor to wrap up very quickly. The hydraulic throwout should enhance our reliability. Stay tuned, we will see if the theory works out.

Bob

[Horsewidower]

Just got the head back today from Bo, he just finished prototyping stainless steel exhaust flanges and aluminum intakes. We won't be using it until we get the chassis settled out with the mule motor. I couldn't be more pleased.

http://www.bo-port.com/

[MikeFleming]

I don't recall ever seeing Rain-X used that way before!

[Horsewidower]

I don't recall ever seeing Rain-X used that way before!

Mario was right: "its amazing."

[Henson]

Boing!

Pop goes the Weasel as the Weasel goes pop.

[Horsewidower]

Taking spring break off with my boys. The goals are to get as much of the body and windows hung as possible. We'll start at the rear, weld up the bumper, hang the rear flares, mount the quarter windows and try to get the back window mounted.

If that all gets done, I'll weld up the front bumper, mount the polyureathane nose, mount the flared front fenders, fit the hood and do the windshield.

The chance of this all happening, pretty damn low.

I also have to get the turbo turd (my '86 svo) ready for some open track time. Just got through putting a new motor combo in it (je flat tops, crower sportsmans, boported iron head with a 2277, badly needs to be tuned in, runs like crap) and mounting MM full length subframe connectors, lower control arms, koni yellows, stiffer lower springs, FMS aluminum radiator and removed the rear swaybar. I need to finish the MM panhard rod install, go through the front brakes and find some time to tune it.



Gonna be a busy week.

[Horsewidower]

Well, the trannys blown on the red turd. Good thing I've got an extra one for the racecar. Not the way I expected to start the vacation. But I should have it taken care of tonight. Going to "300" with the boys and their friends at the local Imax this afternoon. Should be an experience.

Bob

[Horsewidower]

Looks like I might have spoken too soon. The u-joints are shot. Took it over to the drive line shop to have them knock the harmonic balancer off it, put in heavy duty u-joints and balance it. Let's see if that works. Should have the panhard bar install finished today. The frame rails were a lot thicker than I expected, but other than that it hasn't been too tough. An extra set of hands would have been helpful, but a couple of sheet metal screws held everything up while I did the critical measurements.

[Horsewidower]

Yep, driveshaft. Put the rebuilt one in and it's great.

Of course something else would come up, my son was changing the supercharger pulley on the MINI and we found out that a motor mount was broken. I guess after 120,000 miles, and numerous track days it could be expected. $95 for a motor mount and we had to order it.

Time to get back to our regularly scheduled racecar blog. I told my wife (Lovely Donna) I'd spend one day of vacation working around the house, today's that day. I'll get back on the racecar tomorrow.

Bob

[SVturbO]

Good read, car(s?) look great!

Nice spindle setup up front, but why didn't you get the big ones? :cheers:

[Horsewidower]

What, NASCAR spindles and hubs aren't big enough for you? I'll get some off a Peterbilt next time:thumb:

[Horsewidower]

Well, I called in the Cavalry. I used to crew for a guy that ran an SCCA super production car. Its a regional class for purpose built tubeframed racecars, pretty much unlimited. He retired a couple of months ago and his wife told him that he needed to retire from driving, but crewchiefing was ok. He is coming over Friday to help get the body panels on. Four hands are certainly better than two, even with clecos.

Tomorrow I'll set the car back on the ground, set it to ride height and make sure I've got the centerline marked.

Here are some pics of the trunk lid mounted and pinned. It's the steel skin with all the bracing removed and hinges removed to lighten it. Also the rear window lexan blank. We are going to need to build some new flanges to mount it to given that we want it flush. The flanges will need to be a least 3/4 of an inch shallower in order to get the lexan where we want it. I thought about just cutting the existing flange loose and then rewelding it as needed but I really don't want to burn the paint and do all that seam welding. So I think we will just use some aluminium L channel riveted to the correct depth and some artful bending in the corners. Should be interesting.

The same solution won't work on the windshield. We screwed up when the wiring and master cylinders were mounted. They can only be serviced by removing the windshield!! Ease of installation should never trump servicability. We will need to weld dzus fastner hardware on. What a pain.



The Pics:

[Horsewidower]

Hanging the body work.

Below is what we started with. The car on jack stands, then added the tires and set the car to ride height.

[Horsewidower]

Another ride height photo, the body parts to be hung, and the evil clecos.

[Horsewidower]

Here you can see my buddy Roger making patterns for the door block outs (where the hinges used to be), installing them, hanging the fenders with the openings centered on the hubs (added about two inches to the length, I'll have to either make another cowl extension or just ignore it) and Roger welding in the bumper.

[Horsewidower]

Here are some pics with all the body panels hung. We will need to lengthen the hood to cover the extension of the fenders, finish some bracing for the lower part of the bumper cover and finalize a spacer for the middle of the bumper cover. Windows still need to be hung. Not bad for a day's work. Four hands are definitely better than two and a box of clamps!

[KarlRodg88]

so is that thing gonna be ready for the spring sprint???

[Horsewidower]

No. Shooting for the open test day for IT cars on June 6th at Thunderhill. I'm going up there next weekend to watch the NASA AI/X run group. They're saying that they will do a real inspection of the cars, so I want to see what they are looking at. I'll take pictures and post them.

I shouldn't have gotten side tracked by the street car. But, its a lot more fun to drive now.

[Horsewidower]

I'm going to start getting the mule motor ready to go in. Hope to get the engine and tranny in over the next couple of weeks. I still need to make sure that the clutch is working properly and create a pedal stop so that the hydraulic throw out bearing doesn't over extend.

Anyhow, here are some gratuitous exhaust photos.

[Horsewidower]

We went over to the race at Thunderhill to talk to the AI director and meet a couple of the guys. It was cold, windy and rainy, and we needed to get back early in the afternoon. Just so the qualifying, a number of the guys kept their cars on the trailer. Here are a couple of Pics:

1st picture is Vageli Karas' car, he built it himself and it is very nicely done.
2nd picture is Ernesto Roco's, he is the National AIX champion.

[KarlRodg88]

thats awesome, they just had an article in the new 5.0 magazine about AIX. anymore pics?

[vrinner]

1st picture is Vageli Karas' car, he built it himself and it is very nicely done.
2nd picture is Ernesto Roco's, he is the National AIX champion.

Why do both cars have plastic over the front lights? I also see that they both have the cooling fins above the front tires on the fenders.

[Horsewidower]

No, no more pics. I usually take a bunch, but most of the cars were covered due to the rain. We left shortly after the qualifying session, just not a lot of opportunities.

Vrinner: Aerodynamics. The fins above the front tires are not for cooling, they are to relieve lift created by the rotation of the tires. Tires are like big air pumps, they create a high pressure area above and behind the tire. The fins are used to relieve that pressure.

The temporary plastic (that thin film on the front) is just to keep the rain out.

[Horsewidower]

Starting to work on dressing the engine. I bought a kit from pyropete that works with the EDIS system. I'm going to have to create a pointer for TDC to go with the Essy pulley system. You might note the need to trim the belt cover to keep it from hitting the trigger wheel. I don't know that it needs to be done on all covers, but I'd check. You can see the use of the EDIS coil that has been mounted over the top of the powermaster alternator. Also tossed in a photo of the solid motor mounts that we made out of stock mounts and the moroso 5.0 solid mounts.

[Horsewidower]

Below are pictures of the brake pedal assembly. Its Wilwood pedals, with tilton master cylinders.

#1: unassembled pedals and cylinders. Front, Back and clutch. They are all differently sized based on their use. Smallest is clutch, largest is back brake.

#2:Assembled

#3: Another view, the cylinders have remote mounted reservoirs.

#4: side by side with the assembly we wanted to use. The floor mounted assembly,, which had all the stops, throttle and throttle spring as one unit worked great when we used a straight up seat, however, the seat was uncomfortable and we went to a 20* layback. That pushed us forward enough so that it we infeasible to use the floormounted pedals. Maybe next time.

Bob

[Horsewidower]

This didn't work for ****, so ignore it.


The engine uses an esslinger pulley set with a pyropete EDIS crank trigger. There is no off the shelf pointer for this set up. So I made one, Jr. High Shop finally paid off.

1 The set up. The pointer needs to go over the trigger wheel and then drop down to the pulley.

2 Pattern time.

3 layout on aluminum

4 Bending time

5 One pointer, ready to go.

[Horsewidower]

I forgot the money shot:

[Horsewidower]

Fire System. We're big sticklers for safety, so we have a 10 lb. Safecraft three nozzle system. One nozzle for the fuel cell, one for the engine and one for the driver. Its a pull system with the handle mounted next to the driver's door so that it can be easily accessed by both the driver and safety crew. Now for the pics:

1: mounting location for the bottle, right side rear. Still trying to balance out my fat butt. You can see the beginnings of the accusump installation also.

2: See the pull handle. It will just be lower than the door sill so that it can't be kicked when we are climbing in.

3. You can see the routing of the lines.

4. Nozzle location for the driver.

5. Nozzle location in the engine compartment.

[Horsewidower]

One month and 2 days to go.

Any odds on successful completion? Hold on there, don't lay your bets yet. I gotta come clean on a couple of things.

The wiring and Haltech expert is AWOL, I'd kill him if I ever found him, but I need him to finish the work. I'm working on a contingency plan, but he has my 2.3 specific software that I got from Clay Autrey.

The "brake" problem isn't, its a bent axle. Out of a problem comes an opportunity, I've hated the 1 and 1/2 inch spacers that we bought for the rear axles when we made the front end track wider. Now we will just lengthen the new axles the proper amount. But, like I really needed that expense at the moment!! Of course when we widen the axle, the current brake mounts for the rear end won't fit, just another opportunity to practice the old fabrication skills.

The engine is not in yet!! We couldn't get the clutch and master cylinder to bleed. After trying for two days, we finally figured out that we had tightened down the pedal rod on the master cylinder too far so it wouldn't let any fluid through. ARRRGGHHHHH. :doh: Have you ever gotten so pissed at something that you just can't see the simple solution?? :mad:

The best part is that I called Thunderhill and they don't require that the car be teched and I don't have to pay the test fee until we show up.

So, who wants to lay odds?

Bob

[Raven855]

I personally think you are going to make it! You started this thread on 2-16 and look how far you've come. Why wouldn't you make it? Hang in there, we're rooting for ya!

[Horsewidower]

Thanks Tony for the vote of confidence, I appreciate it.

Just got in from finally getting the clutch set up. Its almost midnight here, not to bad. Because we finally got it bleed last night, we set the engine and tranny up on the stand and set up the clearance between the throwout bearing and the clutch. .170 clearance from the bearing to the clutch fingers, then no more than .170 after contact. Only took a couple of times putting the tranny on, taking it off and adjusting. Final adjustment will occur when its in the car. I welded in a pedal stop on the fire wall in order to limit the pedal stroke.

Tomorrow, if everything goes well (when has that ever happened!) the engine goes in for the last time before start up.

Bob

[MikeFleming]

One month and 2 days to go.
...
So, who wants to lay odds? I'm with Tony on this one too (a second vote of confidence!). You have lots of time - after all, I re-assembled my car in less than three months from just a bare, freshly-painted shell.

So get 'er done! And take lots of pics along the way.

ARRRGGHHHHH. Have you ever gotten so pissed at something that you just can't see the simple solution?? Yeah, but she doesn't live with me anymore. :doh:

Or were you talking about a car project? Been there, done that too - it's part of the "fun". It's part of "learning" for the next project. It's what you don't talk about with the interviewer when he asks "What would you do differently if you did it all over again?"

[Horsewidower]

Thanks Mike. I got a belly laugh out of that one. I think I was just pissed off and whiney. I'll get back at it!! More pics by the end of the weekend.;

Bob

[Horsewidower]

Here we go, time to get the engine in the car. Lets be clear, there is nothing special about this first engine, stock '84 TC long block. I got the engine free, along with the rest of the car, from a friend who's wife told him to get rid of it. Drove it home, didn't smoke and was reasonably strong. Given that we have'nt ever used this Haltech, we thought we'd use an expendable engine for the initial tests. Here are some of the pics of the parts we are attaching to it.

1. Table full of bits.

2. Turbo and 40Bob log modified with an external wastegate.

3. Turbo and piping.

4. Turbojoe fuel rail and 1000cc RC injectors.

[Horsewidower]

The engine is in!! Pictures later.

[MikeFleming]

The engine is in!! Pictures later.Party On, Wayne!!

[Horsewidower]

Rog came over this evening. Got the lower bumper cover support welded up and the exhaust installed. Summit sent the rest of the fuel system. AFPR and the associated fittings. AWOL wiring guy called back after I said I wanted the software and instructions back because I had someone else lined up if he didn't produce. I hate to dump this guy because of his experience doing motors for Gurney's TRD GTP effort and Comptech's GTP light experience. He has some great ideas on using a wide band and closed loop system and integrating the knock sensor. But, I want the car on the road by June 6th. We will see how that ends up by the weekend. I really like the guy but his business , structured wiring for office systems, has taken off and I understand his need to attend to his bread and butter.

Bob

[Horsewidower]

Don't worry, I've got about 80 pics I've got to sort through for the work that we have done over the last week. Here is the narrative update.

We have the car loaded and set to go to the computer/wiring expert tomorrow. Its supposed to come back on Thursday.

The engine is in, its full of fluids and has 5 gallons of gas. Rog came over Saturday and squared up the chassis, we weren't far off, about an 1/8 of an inch. But now we are right on! We need to refabricate the lower shock mounts for the rear end, we only have about 1 and 3/4 inch of shock travel and we need to plan for about 3". I have all the new brackets, they just haven't been installed. Fuel system is complete, oil system is plumbed except for the accusump.

Damn Griggs sent us tierod ends that have two right hand threads, so we can't get the toe set other than 1/4 inch in or 1/4 inch out. As much as their stuff wins most of the races on the west coast, their business is just sloppy. We'll see how that phone call goes tomorrow. I'm assuming that we will have to just fix it ourselves by retapping the outer end and going to a larger heim joint.

We filled the oil and the radiator, we have been plagued by the "hot bolting" that was done by everyone as we have been going along. The thermostat housing (although it has no thermostat and is a new part made of aluminum) was missing its gasket and the engne coolant temperature sensor was not teflon taped and screwed all the way in, causing a coolant leak.

Our vaunted Haltech E11v2 was supposed to deal with boost levels, but after rereading the specs, I realized that I had not purchased the proper solenoid. So for the immediate need I plumbed in a manual turbonetics controller. Its an expediate soluition , but not a good one. I'll get the other on order tomorrow.

Axle was ordered to replace the bent one, should be in a week from Monday. Then we can hang the right rear caliper and finish the brakes. Should be an easy job, but that would be an exception.

The car sits really low, I mean really low. Its a kick in the a$$. We are thinking about calling it the GT 48. For those of you who know race history, you know how tall it is.

So, when the car comes back:

Finish the fire system
Finish the brake system
Mount the windows
Fabricate the radiator ducting
Mount the seat, and harness
Nut and Bolt EVERYTHING
Cornerweight and ballast as necessary
Fix the tierod ends (can you say scrub with a 1/4 inch toe-in, I don't even want to talk about 1/4 inch of toe-out!)
Lower the rear shock mounts.
Finish and mount the fenders and the bumper cover.
Trim the new carbon fiber hood to fit.

If we have any time left, mount the rear wing and the front splitter. We don't intend to test with them. We want to establish grip without the aero aids to begin with, but if things go well in the morning on June 6th, it would be nice to have the wing and spltter ready.

Pics in the next couple of days.

Bob

[Meotchh]

Damn Griggs sent us tierod ends that have two right hand threads, so we can't get the toe set other than 1/4 inch in or 1/4 inch out. As much as their stuff wins most of the races on the west coast, their business is just sloppy. We'll see how that phone call goes tomorrow. I'm assuming that we will have to just fix it ourselves by retapping the outer end and going to a larger heim joint.


Bob

Calling Griggs' business sloppy is an understatement. If you call them their answer may be to just wack it with a pipe. I wish I could just wack them with a goddmn pipe:mad:

[Horsewidower]

Hauled the car to him last Monday, so far everything is supposed to be working except the Haltech won't talk to the ignition. So we dumped the Ford EDIS and tried a bosch, that didn't work, now we've ordered an MSD DIS 2. Its supposed to be here Monday. We'll see if it will finally fire.

Here are some pics.

Putting together the intake and fuel system.

1. Lower with TurboJoe rail. If you get one of these make sure to remove the flash left from the drilling of the rail, otherwise it might break off and clog an injector.

2. Gutted upper.

3. Lower mounted, injectors mounted and wired. 1000cc rc engineering.

4. Plumbing, Plumbing and more Plumbing.

5. AFPR.

[Horsewidower]

Just some pics of the installation. I chose to insulate the fuel lines over the turbo.

Also a couple of oil system pics, the oil cooler is in the C&R radiator.

[at8tc]

I'm with Tony on this one too (a second vote of confidence!). You have lots of time - after all, I re-assembled my car in less than three months from just a bare, freshly-painted shell.

So get 'er done! And take lots of pics along the way.

Yeah, but she doesn't live with me anymore. :doh:

Or were you talking about a car project? Been there, done that too - it's part of the "fun". It's part of "learning" for the next project. It's what you don't talk about with the interviewer when he asks "What would you do differently if you did it all over again?"

hey Mike, is that roll bar custom made or did you buy it in a kit??

[MikeFleming]

hey Mike, is that roll bar custom made or did you buy it in a kit?? It was custom made to my specs (where to attach, what sized tubing) and to fit the car (which is the more important part). It's a work of art all by itself.

[Horsewidower]

Well, after the 2 days that the wiring/computer guy said would take to finish the car turned into 12, we are a little behind. And it still doesn't fire.

Not really the guys fault, he couldn't get an oil pressure reading so wisely decided not to fire it up. Unfortunately, when we got it home, spun the oil driveshaft with a drill, we still couldn't get much of a reading. With the addition of the remote oil filter, cooler and attendant lines, we are at 9 quarts and counting. We did finally get some oil out the oil pressure gauge line, but it isn't at much pressure:confused: .

The other problem is that either the battery or starter are just about dead. We bought a brand new odyssey light weight battery, but the 1 and 1/2 years it sat around may have killed it.

The good news is that the computer and ignition are talking to each other, the switches work, the fuel pump pumps (although we can't seem to get more than 20 psi when first switched on.

The new axle came in and has been installed, Rog came over and built the radiator box and we squared up the front fender mounting.

So keeping track of the list:

Finish the fire system. need to flare two tube ends

Finish the brake system Trying to finish today and tomorrow, waiting on pads

Mount the windows Not yet

Fabricate the radiator ducting DONE

Mount the seat, and harness Not yet

Nut and Bolt EVERYTHING :eek:
Cornerweight and ballast as necessary Not yet

Fix the tierod ends (can you say scrub with a 1/4 inch toe-in, I don't even want to talk about 1/4 inch of toe-out!) Interesting conversation with Griggs. Bruce stated that they did not build them like regular racecar tierods with right and left hand threads, instead you have to turn the inner rod like you do with stock mustangs. His reasoning was that they didn't want to confuse alignment shops becuase most of the parts were being put on street driven mustangs.

Lower the rear shock mounts. Half way there, we mocked it up yesterday, I need to fab a couple of things.

Finish and mount the fenders and the bumper cover. 90%, we are satisfied with their mounting positions, because its easier to work on with them off we will wait until one of the last things. Its just a bunch of rivets.

Trim the new carbon fiber hood to fit. Cleaned it up last night, marked the first couple of cut lines. Probably have it done this weekend

The immediate need is to try and get it fired. I called a buddy that has a shop, dyno and experience with the Haltech and will take it to his place on Tuesday if its not running. June 6th is gone. I just hope its running by then.

We have some connections over at the CHP Academy, so we'll go over there to shake it out. Our long term goal is to run it in an SCCA double regional on Labor Day weekend. We should have no problem with that. I knew June 6th would be difficult, but having an early date would help everyone focus, including me. I just wish I could get those 10 days back!!

A couple of pics of the cars and tow rig.

1. GO TOWARDS THE LIGHT!!

2. Sunshine feels great.

3. One car out of the trailer. That's my partner on the car, Geoff. We keep it at his garage.

4. Roger's car. SCCA regional super production class.

5. Tow rig. We couldn't get Geoff's pickup's electrical to work with the trailer's, so we used the Peterbilt. A little over trucked!

Bob

[MikeFleming]

The other problem is that either the battery or starter are just about dead. We bought a brand new odyssey light weight battery, but the 1 and 1/2 years it sat around may have killed it. It probably just needs a good charge. They have a two year shelf life and a two year warranty so if it's still low after a charging, get it replaced.

I've deep-cycled mine a couple times (like left an interior light on for a couple weeks) and it fully recovered after a charging.

And if you need more craning power to get things sorted during the first startup, just jumper a larger battery to it and keep the charger connected.

So get this thing done. We need video.

Where is the double regional?

[Horsewidower]

Thanks for the info on the battery. I'll charge it overnight and see how it does.

Double regional is at Sears Point (can't seem to get used to calling it Infineon)

[CP86SVO]

Thanks for the info on the battery. I'll charge it overnight and see how it does.

Double regional is at Sears Point (can't seem to get used to calling it Infineon)

Watch the charging voltage...make sure it doesn't go above 15 volts!

HTH WS

[MikeFleming]

Watch the charging voltage...make sure it doesn't go above 15 volts! Not a problem with the sealed, jell-cell types. They recommend to charge to 15.5.

[Horsewidower]

I'm starting to think starter. The battery is showing good on the charger, but now we are down to just a click. I'll yank it and have it checked. Even using the "engine start" on the charger, nothing.

Bob

[CP86SVO]

Food for thought...

http://www.odysseyfactory.com/documents/US-ODY-OM%20(2602-0232,%20Rev.5)_1206.pdf

HTH WS

[Horsewidower]

Thanks for that link. I didn't get anything but the battery when I bought it. The starter is coming out.

[Horsewidower]

Excellent day at the shop, started at 7:30 am , just got home at 11:00 pm.

Completely finished the rear end of the car with the exception of filling the pumpkin with gear oil and friction modifier. After lowering the shock lower mounting points about 1.4 inches, we rechecked bump. Everything will bottom at about the same time, axle to frame, shocks, coil bind, subframe connectors etc. We had to shorten the panhard rod almost an inch and a quarter, because the bracket that we used changed that mounting point. The panhard is now also about 1.4 inches lower, which results in a lower roll center for the rear.

Rear brakes are done except for the flex lines and the new pads. Should have both those in shortly.

We then turned our attention to the problem getting the car to turn over. Changed all the starting cables from 2s to 00s, while doing that we discovered that one of the old cables had not been crimped properly and the wire fell out of the cable end. Also, I changed to a '93 starter, big difference. I love the search function on SVOCA!!

With the car turning over easily, we built real oil pressure for the first time, primed the fuel pump, and tried to get it to fire. Unfortunately, the MSD DIS 2 was not showing any spark on its trouble shotting LED. We then tested it per their directions, and it sparked when grounded. Hmmm. We figured we were having problems on the trigger end and fiddled with the EDIS wheel and sensor. That gave us a reading of "intermittent trigger" on the MSD box. We finally called it quits for the day.

Oh, also, Rog finished the bumper cover, so now its time to size the hood and finish the exterior painting.

Heck of a good day.

Bob

[Raven855]

Dang, I'm tired just reading about everything you got done. Great day! :cheers: Thanks for the update......

[7t9cobra]

my god! that is the coolest s*** ive ever seen!

[Horsewidower]

Well here are a bunch pics from the thrash:

1&2 completing the front bodywork. Needed to cut down the hood.

3,4&5 radiator ducting

[Horsewidower]

Yet more:

Getting the right rear rotor centered in the caliper.

1. Mounting bracket

2. Measuring for equal spacing.

3. It only takes about 60 to find 16 the same thickness.

4. putting it all together.

5. Done!

[Horsewidower]

Out with the old in with the new:

Here is the cable we replaced in order to get the starter to spin better. I think I've seen larger cable for speakers!!

[Horsewidower]

And finally for this evening:

Here are pictures of the three link and the change in the shock mounting location.

[7t9cobra]

you wanna spend some of your time on my cobra dontcha? lol

[Horsewidower]

If only you were closer!! I really enjoy the build. It would be even better if it was on someone elses money!!

Today we cut out the front bumper cover for the brake ducts, fabbed and mounted the front tow hooks, riveted the radiator duct together, mounted the screening for the radiator duct, installed all the brake flex lines, finished the SS brake line plumbing and started bleeding the brakes. Damn things won't gravity bleed so we will have to rethink the routing once we have some time on the car. Redesigned and rehung the bumper cover for the 37th time!!

We really get a lot done when Rog comes over, but there is a price to pay. I helped him pour and finish 3 yards of concrete at his place on Saturday!! My knees are about shot.

Bob

[7t9cobra]

ha! i dont have much money, or you could bet it would look a little better than it does now. your project is amazing! i bet that would be fun to take out on some backroads lol how much power do you think it will be making?
jeff

[Horsewidower]

For HP we have three flavors, so to speak. We have the stock longblock mule motor that we don't want to make more than 250, 300 HP. Don't really want more than that while we shake out the chassis and figure out what falls off. The next flavor is the Morgan shortblock-full boport ironhead with an essy 2277 cam that ought to comfortably put out in the 400 horse range. It can be pushed harder than that, but its a roadracing car and it needs to be reliable. The last one is the monster motor, we haven't decided exactly how we want to build the short block, but the head is a fully bo-ported ARCA aluminum big-valve head with an essy 2235.5 cam. If we build that motor for the Thunderhill 25 hour, it'll probably be a stroker to get to 2.7 liters and limit the rpm. If we do it as a sprint race engine, we'll probably leave it at 2.3 and rev the wee out of it.

Bob

[7t9cobra]

thats just awesome. man, the things i would do, to be able to road race.

[Horsewidower]

Should I start a new thread in "Engine and Drivetrain" for the 25 hour engine design and build or leave it in this one? Given the input given by the moderator on this thread, it may be better received here. ??

We don't intend to do that race until '08, and if the real estate market doesn't pick up, it could be '09. But, I want to start figuring out exactly what I want to do and start picking up the parts. Pat had some very interesting comments on a post at another forum, I hope he will chime in on this discussion.

Bob

[Horsewidower]

Getting down to the short strokes. Here is the list for this weekend.

Finish bleeding the brakes and clutch.

If the stuff comes in from Pitstopusa, finish the front brake ducts, hang the hosing and spindle brake ducts.

Cut the hood down.

Fill the rear pumpkin with gear lube.

Begin mounting the windows.

Probably too ambitious as the windows and hood are time consuming to do correctly.

Called the dyno operator, we are scheduled for either July 5th or 6th. I'll meet with him on June 25th to go over the program. I want us both to clearly understand the expectations.

Pics on Monday.

[8T6 SVO]

The next flavor is the Morgan shortblock-full boport ironhead with an essy 2277 cam that ought to comfortably put out in the 400 horse range.

Bob

Bob,

Great read as I've just caught on to this thread.

I've done nothing to my car (street car) but do have your next engine flavor down to a tee.

It takes a lot of work to acheive what your doing, and probably the most fun you'll ever have (besides winning some championship with that car).

Thanks for posting all your progress - I'm close by and would love to come by and see your work some time.:thumb:

Greg

[Horsewidower]

Greg: Love to have you come down and give it a look. PM a number and I'll give you a call.

I actually have that long block in the red turd svo, getting all the parts happy with each other. I run it on the regular switch and am very careful about not going for a full throttle run because I haven't upgraded the fuel system or computer for the significantly greater air flow that is possible. It is a freakin riot though. I pulled into a parking lot with it and a guy came over and asked me if I had a 460 in it!! He about fell over when I showed him that it was just a little old 4 cylinder under the hood.

[Pat_in_L.A.]

So have you been watching Le Mans? There have been some valuable lessons to be learned. Good thing is, it's a free lesson for the spectators because all the pro teams are paying your cost of tuition. That was a fairly good sized chunk of concrete that got inside the fender of the Audi and was laying on the upper control arm. People started slipping and sliding off the road as the dew settled just before dawn.

[Horsewidower]

The leading Audi just crashed out, Peugot may win this thing yet. Looks like bad pit work caused damage to the rear of the Audi.

[Pat_in_L.A.]

In almost every class, this appeared like the race that everyone was trying not to win. The gremlins were out in force this year.

[MikeFleming]

That was a fairly good sized chunk of concrete that got inside the fender of the Audi and was laying on the upper control arm. That had to be the only non-CF suspension arm in the whole lot.

All the other race car arms looked like boomerangs made from CF.

[Horsewidower]

Well after another 11 hour thrash we are done with all the major items except the window mounting. Pitstopusa also did not perform on the 3 day delivery of the brake duct materials, so that will have to come this next week. But:

Brakes and clutch bleed and functioning.
Diff full of Mobil 1 gear lube. Man I hate that job.
Nutted and bolted the rear half of the car.
Hood cut down and mounted.
Rear wheel spacers mounted and loctited.
Put the tires and wheels on.
Dropped it on the ground.

Man it looks good.

1. Roger laying out dzus

2. Duzused

3. The hood in question. Came off one of Roger's old cars, actually originally for a Firebird.

4. A little cutting

5. A little measuring.

[Horsewidower]

The car on the ground. You can see the finished front radiator screen, tow hooks, and brake ducts. We will need to raise the front just a little to begin with, its only 2 7/8ths from the ground. We'll finishing painting after going to the dyno.

HW

[Horsewidower]

Well, tomorrow could be a good day or a really bad one. I've got the local Haltech dealer, Cliff Duvall of Turbo-Power in Cameron Park, coming over to get this damn thing started. After gettting left in the lurch by the wiring and computer guy, Cliff said he'd give us a hand. We want to get it started and running before the dyno session. Here is hoping for an easy start.

HW

[Horsewidower]

Well... sorry to say it was a bad day. The aussies use old serial ports instead of USBs so we couldn't find a computer that would hook up. Tried an adaptor and it didn't take. Cliff ran back up to his house and found a old computer that would work and came back. We then spent hours trying to download the necessary software, only to find out that the software we had was a different version than the firmware in the computer. Word to the wise, don't buy the standalone ECU at the start of your build, it'll be outdated by the time you plug it in!!

Cliff is calling haltech tomorrow, maybe we can get some answers.

[Horsewidower]

Eureka!! Cliff was able to get the information from Haltech that he needed. Unfortunately, he can't get back down here until this weekend to give it a try. Plenty of other things to finish off while we wait for fire. We have all the items we need to finish the brake cooling and the new pads, so I'll finish that off. Finally found the 1/2 by 1/2 aluminum tube we needed to mount the front and back windows. Picked up the seat harness, they are only good for two years without a recert, so I waited on that until we thought we were real close. Need to finish the accusump plumbing. Not really needed for the dyno thrash, but I've got the time now. I can always finish up the painting.

We'll see what the week brings.

H

[Horsewidower]

I'm starting to feel like Golum sneaking up on Frodo. Start my precious, start my precious. ARRRGHHHHH.

And yet it all still comes down to air, fuel and spark. I'm just a lot more comfortable twisting a distributor and playing with a carb than plugging in the computer and making a bunch of key strokes. I think the big difference is that with the old stuff you just grabbed a wrench and started fiddling, twist the distributor until you get the car to react, you didn't really think, hmmm, lets twist it x degrees or, lets give it x more pulse width of gas. I guess what I'm saying is that you actually have to think!!

Cliff came down Friday and we played with it for about 5 hours, we had some very basic problems, didn't seem to be getting fuel, the crank trigger was not reading. The crank trigger was pretty easy, we had set it to the EDIS setting and we finally had to get the clearance down to about .015, if you get it close enough it can just clearance the sensor to the right distance :doh: So we finally got a crank trigger signal. We needed that to fire the injectors and pulse the fuel pump. Once we handled that, we realized that we still weren't getting any fuel. Cliff told us we had a basic fuel delivery problem, to fix it, and then packed up and left. That was about 10:00 pm. We were baffled.

The fuel cell had 5 gallons in it. The AFPR was showing as much as 25 to 30 psi, but only got there after repeated switching of the ignition on and off. We had primed the system (a week earlier) by unhooking the supply line from the cell and running fuel directly into the hose through the check valve and into the pump. What the hell was wrong??

We thought we had an airlock, so we cracked the line at the AFPR, and eureka! we had air released, must be the problem. Not so fast there soldier. Cause we did it again and again and again and again .... Hmmm. No fuel, we had just been compressing the air and it was showing the pressure at the AFPR. So we packed it in that evening. We decided that the pickup in the tank must not be grabbing the fuel. The next morning we planned to go get some more gas and see if it made a diffence.

Next morning, added 10 more gallons of gas, no way could that pickup be uncovered. Fixed the problem?? Again, not so fast there buckaroo. Nothing.
Not a drop just air!! I got accused of buying a carburetor pump, I told someone to take a flying ... and then we calmed down and kept going.

Yanked the return line, no gas. Yanked the supply line, no gas. Hmmm. Geoff grabbed a length of line, stuffed it down the supply line fitting of the cell and blew into it, no noise no nothing. He pulled it out, bone dry. WTF!! Should have been wet, there was 15 gallons in a 22 gallon tank. Time to pull off the top plate from the fuel cell. Guess what? The in tank supply hose did not have its end connected to the top plate fitting!!

To paraphrase Carrol Smith, author of the best series of books on how to build and tune a racecar, take apart anything you buy and put it back together again. Don't trust that the guy at the factory was doing anything but trying to get the part out the door.

Now, I have a confession to make, it might have been my mistake. I was going to have the cell altered for a fuel trap, the guy that was going to do it said that he didn't think it was necessary and told me to put it back together. The top plate was in place and he gave me all the bolts. I didn't do anything but screw the bolts back in. My bad. I should have checked. I assumed that he had just gotten far enough to unbolt the top plate and hadn't gone any further.

So, hooked up the fitting, screwed on the top plate and bang, 40 psi of GAS at the AFPR.

At that point, I had to leave to go to my mother-in-law's 70th birthday party. 6 hours of driving for 2 hours of fun. :woot:

So I'm leaving the party at 10 pm and Geoff calls on the cell. He's excited as hell, its coughing and spitting and has shot a couple of foot long flames out of the exhaust. Unlike me, he is perfectly happy to start keystroking his way to a tune. Man I'm glad we put the mule motor lump in, it'd be killing me to think about abusing one of the race motors as we stumble our way to an idle.

I haven't heard from him today, so I don't know how far he got. I received some info from Mike Fleming on timing and pulsewidths that will hopefully get us close. Stay tuned.

[MikeFleming]

Looks like I need to start a fresh batch of Crocodile Tongues for you... (now that we've just passed a full moon here)

[Pat_in_L.A.]

Here's what I did 20 yrs ago. I installed an ATL cell in my car with a small transfer pump which filled up a one quart aluminum container. That container had a return line for fuel overflow back to the main cell and a pickup line that fed an inline pump on to the engine. I had no need for baffles or overly trick ball check valves. It worked fine and picked up every available drop. You may choose not to go that route, since in an enduro, you could still limp the car in to the pits after the fuel pressure starts balking.

[Horsewidower]

Crocodille Tongues?? At least it ain't tears!!

Yep another Moon has passed, If it isn't running before the next one, I might just light the garage on fire.

Pat, we had the same thought process. Can't really shake that small tank around to get the last bit of fuel you need to get into the pit.

H

[Horsewidower]

Well, if you haven't noticed, we are still fighting the computer. We've narrowed the immediate problem down to a problem with the crank trigger and sensor position. We burnt up one starter already, thank you autolite for the lifetime warranty!!

[larry_s]

Pat, we had the same thought process. Can't really shake that small tank around to get the last bit of fuel you need to get into the pit.

H

I picked up a 3 door surge tank from Muscle motorsports for around $115.

[Horsewidower]

:woot: :cheers: Well, after 2 years and 10 months we got the car to run today!! Other than getting married and the birth of my sons, I can't think of something I've been more happy about.

2 nights ago I sat down and read the entire 148 page haltech manual, and found a number of errors that we needed to correct. Then we figured out the problem with the crank trigger, swapping the spark plug wires from one coil to the other and with the esslinger pulley, easily figuring out the trigger angle and tooth offset based on BDC

We still ended up fiddling for a while to get things going. We finally got it to run at about 1500 to 2000 rpm, won't idle yet. Pig rich, but it sure is great to hear it run. Only a couple of small oil leaks at this point, one is the return line from the turbo, one is at the oil pan at one of the bolts in front.

I'll read up on leaning it out and see if we can get it to idle. I'll hook up the AFR gauge and get it close before we take it to the pros.

H

[Raven855]

That is great news! Congrats!!!:woot:

[8T6 SVO]

Right on H! Keep it going.:)

[larry_s]

Congrats! I am really looking forward to hear how it does on the track. Some of the AI cars out west are really starting to be built to the extent of the rules it seems. You should do very well in AIX as I imagine your power to weight will be quite good.

Hell of a job you guys are doing! Good luck with getting the idle going ok.

[Horsewidower]

Just a little update, we haven't given up. We continue to struggle with the computer, I spent this evening reclocking the crank trigger wheel and figuring out a different mount for the sensor. I should have it all back together on Tues or Weds. While it runs with the trickery we did with changing the coils and timing off BDC, its a pain to think about all the timing events 180* out of phase. This will correct that problem.

I've wired in the AFR gauge and we'll get down to some serious tuning this weekend. Roger is coming over Thursday, so I'm sure we'll make some progress.

Bob

[Raven855]

Be sure to post a pic of your sensor, I would really like to see it. At this rate it should really be purring soon!:cheers:

[Horsewidower]

Well, Rog didn't come over until today. We fixed a problem with the toe on the front suspension, mounted the cooling ducts on the front spindles. We then checked the bumpsteer, and got some great numbers. .005 toe-out per inch on the passenger side, only .015 on the driver's. No bumpsteer stack of washers at all!! I'm going to have some material milled off the steering arm to get it closer. I need to go find some shorter bolts now that we don't need the stack.

Sensor bracket and reclock of the trigger wheel are finished, just need to make the TDC pointer.

H

[Horsewidower]

I'll get back after this thing probably around Labor day. I had to take my son to look at a bunch of colleges, get the boys ready to restart school (August 8th, way too damn early) fix a bunch of honey do's on the horse farm, catch up on a bunch of work at work (a couple of weekend thrashes) etc. So no real progress to report other than riveting on the rear flares and quarter windows, finishing the initial suspension tuning and changing the brake pads.

I'll post some pics of the quarter windows and flares as soon as I get the pictures.

H

[Horsewidower]

Just pics:

[Ken Potter]

I just want to throw another thank you in for all of this work. It is very interesting to see it coming together.

:cheers:

[Horsewidower]

Thanks Ken. One of the reasons I did this log was to encourage me to finish. Your comments certainly help. I find when I want to start throwing wrenches at the car (no Mike I didn't say wenches :spin: ) I need to step away and cool off for a couple of weeks. This is another official cooling off period. Looks like we will miss this racing season, but I'd still like to get in some real test days.

[Horsewidower]

Had a very productive weekend. Rog, Scott (a new recruit, full time mechanic for the fire department, great addition) Geoff and I worked on the car for about 12 hours on Saturday. Roger worked on the window installation I worked on the new crank trigger and the attendant computer changes, Scott worked on the leaking hydraulic clutch and the leaking rear axle. I've never had a hydraulic line with a pinhole leak in the middle before, really strange. We thought we would have to drop the tranny to change the line (it has a tilton internal hydraulic throw out bearing) but with the purchase of a mirror (couldn't find ours) a crows foot of the right size, a wobbly and some duct tape, Scott was able to fish the line on and off with any tranny removal. What a great job!!

We put the new crank trigger on and adjusted the computer program, and... still no fire!! It was good to have a fresh set of eyes. Roger, Geoff and I are all thinking, what the hell, what is it now. Scott started fussing around as the rest of us bitched, eventually starting to go through the wiring and the fuse box. Damn if we didn't have a blown 15 amp fuse!!!:doh: 6 weeks of bitching, moaning and throwing wrenches and its a damn fuse. Yet again I'm reminded that when something seems mysteriously unresponsive, its time to look for the ordinary! Seconds later, the car is running, although with a 3000 rpm idle with an AFR of 11.8-12.0. But it started over and over and over. Man what a breakthrough.

Roger and I keeped working on the rear window. Pictures below:

[Horsewidower]

Here is the finished rear window and the start of the windshield. We are using rivnuts on part of the front window due to the way the windshield flange is made:

[Horsewidower]

We have a significant valve cover oil leak that we need to fix, and we are having trouble with the worn out mule motor making enough oil pressure. We, are going to test the oil pressure gauge, but if it tests good, we may swap to the race engine before the date at the dyno set for the 29th of September.

We are making progress people!!

H

[Raven855]

Great update! Looks like you had a great weekend....

[Horsewidower]

Thanks, it was quite productive. A little infusion of new blood with all its enthusiasm is usually great. Its really turning into a pretty good team, Rog sings while he works and has 30 years of racing experience, Geoff worked as the crew chief of a vintage racing team in his "youth", Scott has about 30 years in as a mechanic for the fire department and is currently finishing a build on a Mini Cooper S with what he hopes is about 260 whp. It should fly! I'm the mutt of the group.

Here is Scott doing what he does best:

[Ken Potter]

Catching a quick 40 winks under the car? HAHA

I'm sure I'm not the only who has nodded off while under the car after thrashing on it trying to get it done?

Looks great so far and congrats on getting it running consistently.

:woot:

[Horsewidower]

Had another thrash yesterday. Finished putting the left rear axle and seal together. Fixed the valve cover leak, drilled a couple holes in the throttle plate to try and achieve a lower idle. Roger got the windshield hung. Cleaned the interior of the car and mounted the seat, remote shifter, fireproof shifter boot and bolted down the accelerator cable and pedal.

Got it started after some fiddling around. Picked up a miss and after a few backfires, blew out the front oil pan gasket. Never did pick up enough oil pressure, but after checking the oil level (which was way high) decided that we have mixed so much gas with the oil that it needed to be changed before we make a decision to yank the engine. So that's what I'm off to do now.

Pics tonight.

H

[svobrown]

Really enjoy watching someone else spend the money. looks really good!

[Oldham_Racing]

damn, looks like a fun project. i hope to do one to that extent one day...good luck with the rest of it

[MikeFleming]

... drilled a couple holes in the throttle plate to try and achieve a lower idle. Don't you have that backwards??

[Pat_in_L.A.]

Don't you have that backwards??

Solder is your friend.

[Horsewidower]

Thanks guys!!

Mike and Pat: I don't have an idle air valve. We were having some trouble getting the engine to drop below 3000 rpm. When we closed down the throttle plate, it would abruptly stop running as the throttle plate closed. It seemed that it went from adequate air to none rather abruptly. We drilled the holes to provide an air bleed. It seemed to work, we were able to start dropping the rpm lower, but then ran out of oil pressure and had to stop.

[Horsewidower]

Here are pictures of the windsheld install. It's 1/4 inch mar and uv resistant lexan. Its mounted with spacers in order to make it flush, and we used 10-32 screws with either riv-nuts or nylocks so that it is removable. One of the serious mistakes made on the car is that all the electrical connections are made behind the dash, which requires that the windshield must be removed in order to make any repairs. What a pain. Anyhow, here are the pics showing the lexan, the trimming and the mounting.

[Horsewidower]

Well, after trying to get some oil pressure by draining the oil and gas mixture and refilling with a 60 wt valvoline oil, we still could not bring the pressure up. So we yanked the mule motor. It served its purpose, we beat on it for about 60 days, fixed a number of crank trigger problems and fueling problems, and finally we needed to remove it before it just seized. Anyhow, we pulled the motor and will put the first race motor in it. It currently resides in my 86 SVO.

We yanked the mule motor today and did some necessary additional work, including sectioning the pinch flange at the firewall for valve cover clearance, doing a little clearancing on the k-member for the oil pan and putting the bulkhead fitting through the firewall for the accusump. We'll go ahead and plumb that in now.

Here are the pics:

[Pat_in_L.A.]

Whose flywheel and clutch? Tilton? Quartermaster?

[Horsewidower]

Quartermaster Pro 5.5 double disc. Quartermaster flywheel.

[Horsewidower]

Been almost a month, time to get back to work. Last time we were blowing up the mule motor, taking it out and putting a new motor in. Well, it's time to finish yanking the engine out of the "red turd" and get it into the racecar. I've taken four days off next week to make sure this thing is put back together and ready to go to the dyno, and Rog is coming over on Monday to make sure everything is put back together. Unfortunately, the dyno guy is out until the week of the 15th, but maybe we can get the car back together and take it on a little run around the block in the mean time. We'll be finishing a lot of odds and ends and I'll post pictures as we go along. We got to get to the track this year. Reno-Fernley has open track testing every Wednesday so we may try to get up there before the snow flies. We better hurry!!

Bob

[Ken Potter]

Bump...

Waiting on update? I know it's coming...

[Horsewidower]

Just for grins, here's the National Championship Race for one of the series we will race in:

http://drivenasa.com/championships/American-Iron-Championship-video-flash.html

[Horsewidower]

Here are some pics of the work we just got done.

1. Yanking the motor out of the "red turd"
2. The old and the new.
3. Roger "resizing" the pickup tube. A little heat, a little hammer, a little heat, a little bending with pliers. Repeat until satisfied.
4. Engine settling in.

This engine is a full boogie Bo-port iron head, big valves, 2277 essy cam. Bottom end is Crower sportsman rods and 9:1 JE flat top pistons. Studded main caps and head. Should be fun when its running well.

Bob

[Horsewidower]

Just a short update, the hotside is on the engine, the radiator is back on and all the plumbing is done. I had to make up some more oil lines as I wanted to plumb the engine side for the accusump. We ran into some wiring that wasn't up to our standards (various wiring ends fell off when we inspected them :eek: , glad we found them before we hit the track, I'd like to shoot the guy that did the work).

Its suppose to rain this weekend, so I'll spend the time in the garage. Hopefully it'll be running by Monday.

H

[Horsewidower]

Well, I'm starting to think this f...ing thing is jinxed. I spent all day finishing up the plumbing and wiring issues. Charged the battery, hooked up the computer, pressurized the oil system, turned the master electric switch on, turned on the ignition switch, heard the fuel pump charge the system. Pushed the start button and ..... the starter button fritzed. ARRRGHHHHH!!

Come hell or high water, the car goes to the dyno on the 26th. Screw this bull****, I want the damn car on the track.

Bob

[MikeFleming]

Yep - these cars have their own calendar. Late this afternoon I finished putting all the misc pieces back on the red car from the flywheel change that I started in early September. Dropped it to the floor and tightened the lug nuts. Hopefully early tomorrow AM I'll have enough energy to clean the windows and take it for a cruise.

If all checks out OK, then I can work on re-installing the console and other interior parts.

[Horsewidower]

Strange deal, the ignition switch and solenoid showed a close circuit when we tested. We changed both, and it still wouldn't turn over. I rewired the starter so that we used the solenoid on the starter, it stopped the starter from trying to throw out even though the switch wasn't on, but it wouldn't do anything. So I went and had the starter tested, and it was BAD. So I put a 5.0 starter in it.

So it turns over now, but we can't get it to start yet. Last night we determined that one of the injectors is hung open (an injector that was recently balanced and cleaned!!) So today I'm changing out an injector. Hopefully its started by this evening.

Two days to the Dyno!!

[MikeFleming]

You need some Crocodile Tongues. That'll straighten out the car pronto - works every time for me.

[Raven855]

Two days to the Dyno!!

This is getting exciting! And its almost Christmas too! :woot: Going back and looking at the project its just been over 9 months and you are about to deliver. Don't know what you are shooting for on the dyno, but I will give the first guess. Looking at the build, morgan shortblock, boport head(stage IV?) big valve, Essy 2277, 1000cc RC injectors, Haltech, Bobs log, ported intakes, no CAC, first pull......363HP 389 torque. Best pull 395HP and 410 torque(you did say you wanted reliablity).You get 2 guesses first pull and best. Guiness to the winner......:cheers: I'm confident you won't let me down Bob!

[Horsewidower]

:doh: Whoa there hoss. We aren't dynoing for numbers. He has been told to do a safe tune to no more than 275 horses. We've changed back to the 35s to get an idle. With that done, then we'll go test the chassis at a couple of open test days, and then come back, install the 96s and tune for power.

As thrilling as it would be to run up to the numbers you posted, I don't want to do that on an untested chassis. :eek: I tend to be cautious on a new car, breaking at 100 mph is different than breaking at 150.

By the way, fixed the low oil pressure problem. Apparently on an aftermarket remote oil filter adaptor, IN does not mean in to the engine and OUT does not mean out to the filter. :mad: Bob's law of aftermarket parts strikes again!! I did make a pretty nifty oil pump spinner out of an old distributer. I love doing that kind of thing.

[NavySVO]

what's the weight on the car?

[Horsewidower]

2450

[Horsewidower]

IT'S ALIVEEEEEEEE. AGAIN (in best young frankenstien gene wilder imitation)

I don't have the full blow by blow, but Shad called at 5:15 and said "Well I've got great news, and um, uh not so good news. I got it running, but it was on 3 cylinders, and the dead cylinder was because of a lack of fuel. So I swapped in the RC injectors and ... the starter crapped out."

I knew that was going to happen, he called earlier in the day and while he asked questions, he kept pushing the starter button, grinding on the starter. So we have a new record on killing a high torque CSR 5.O starter, 2days!!

I'm getting a Tilton.

I'd love to post a bunch of pics, but at the moment the attachment manager won't let me post from the Photobucket URL. I'll get it figured out and get back to some more interesting updates.

Oh and Raven, I told him to go ahead and tune for numbers if he used the 96s, just as long as he marks where I need to turn the boost controller to knock it down to 275 whp.

We are going to get on track this year, there is a free test day at Thunderhill on 12/23. Hope it doesn't rain.

[SVOeric]

just post the url..

[luvtolean]

We are going to get on track this year, there is a free test day at Thunderhill on 12/23. Hope it doesn't rain.

EH? With whom?

Edit: http://www.thunderhill.com/html/get_your_fill_at_the.HTM

I'm going to be up in that area visiting friends and family anyway, maybe I'll go check it out.

[Horsewidower]

Well, same story next chapter. We are at the start of week two on trying to get it to run. On starter number 3, got that call at 6 tonight. I'm starting to think that we should yank the ECU and send it back to haltech for a check. Shad left a message that he is going to switch the wiring on the crank trigger sensor, when he advances the computer timing it retards the engine timing. ??

[Horsewidower]

At the end of week two, we have 1 more broken starter, a car that will idle on 35 lb injectors, but can't seem to sustain consistent timing. I told them to lock the timing at 25 degrees and get on to modeling the fuel curve. We made the decision to spend the first season in American Iron instead of American Iron extreme, so that limits us to about 290 horsepower or we will not be legal or will have to add weight. Spent way to much on a set of the spec Toyo RA-1s (man I love the smell of new race rubber)(hmmm, hope gator doesn't get excited), unfortunatly in order to get the amount of tire I wanted we have to go to a 17 inch wheel. Try and find a 5x5 17 inch wheel that costs less than $550 per wheel. I've got a line on some CCW centers for a reasonable price, and CCW will roll some shells to spec. Finding 7 inch backspacing on a 9.5 inch wide wheel pretty much requires a 3 piece modular.

I reminded the shop that I need the car back soon if I'm going to make the open test on the 23rd. This is sounding like deja vu all over again.

[Horsewidower]

Well, trailered the car home today. Starter (s) finally stripped the teeth off the flywheel. Looks like a thrash this weekend to get everything off and a flywheel ordered on Monday. Still hasn't been dynoed.

Mike, how about an order of crocodile??

[MikeFleming]

Mike, how about an order of crocodile?? I'll start a fresh batch for you. Takes about a month to cure though.

I'll ship you some fresh "toad eye/bat wing" spray I made up so you can hold your own until the C-Tongues arrive.

[Horsewidower]

Thanks, that should tide me over. A question though, do I spray it on me or the car!!

[MikeFleming]

A question though, do I spray it on me or the car!! Well, I guess we'll first need to determine which one (you or the car) is/has the problem we're trying to solve. I can send enough for both?? What about the other workers and crew members??

Can I assume you have [or can get] candles and salt locally?

Hmmm... I'll have to read up on what happens when you "exorcise" someone or something that isn't "possessed", "occupied", "inhabited" or otherwise "cursed".

[Pat_in_L.A.]

Nachos and a case of Corona work better. After a while you won't care if it runs. You'll just want another Corona.

[MikeFleming]

I already want another Corona.

[Pat_in_L.A.]

I already want another Corona.

I'm holding your Corona right now, which basically means that it's MY CORONA!

[MikeFleming]

Rats !!

[Horsewidower]

You guys slay me!! :cheers:

Well, after picking up the racecar (can I call it that, its never raced and seems to have the attitude that it just doesn't want to) and dropping it off at the shop, picking up a miata that we are going to turn into an open track car for a couple of buddies, moving a 16,000 lb chiller out of the shop to make room for the miata, I just didn't have any energy to yank the flywheel. So we sat around in the shop and drank Henie and bull****ted until getting too cold and coming home.

Damn I could have used a Corona!!

Bob

[MikeFleming]

Damn I could have used a Corona!! I've got a couple right here with your name on them - where Pat can't [easily] get to them. For next time when you're in the area.

[Pat_in_L.A.]

Can't you just install a new ring gear on the existing flywheel?

[Horsewidower]

Interesting, I'll have to see if that will work. Here is the way it looked going in:

<http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q181/horsewidower/P1020054.jpg

[MikeFleming]

Can't you just install a new ring gear on the existing flywheel? Depends on whether the ring gear is a separate part to start off with (and it's not clear from that pic). Obviously aluminum flywheels use replaceable ring gears but not always so for steel/iron flywheels.

And to change them requires some special jigs to hold them. If you recall my thread on installing the steel flywheel, the ring gear has about a 0.030" interference fit and requires the heating of the ring and cooling of the flywheel to assemble them with a special press to push them on and off. 'Cause if it cools too quickly before being bottomed...

Maybe you could just install a compression release and one of those front-bumper mounted crank arms? That would be cool:

"Prop Clear?"
"Check"
"Contact!"
"Check"
"Pull"

[Horsewidower]

Mr. Ford had the same idea. I've got an 8n tractor, maybe use of the crank handle would be advantageous at this point.

I believe its a one piece steel flywheel. I wish I could find my notes.

Bob

[Pat_in_L.A.]

Yes Mike, I am very familiar with replacing ring gears. There are ways that they can be replaced easily, but rookies can get hurt big time if they stray from precautions regarding safety.

[Horsewidower]

:) Alright, I'll bite. I'm a rookie, tell me how to keep from hurting myself.

Bob

[Horsewidower]

Just got back from yanking the transmission and flywheel. The flywheel is one-piece. Looks like the cause was a couple of the 4 bolts that hold the transmission to the bellhousing had worked loose. :doh:

We'll see how fast we can get a new flywheel and get back on track. I've got the NASA exec ready to tech the car, so I need it back together.

Bob

[Horsewidower]

HRPworld got the flywheel drop shipped to me by Quartermaster. I worried for a little bit because the pn had been dropped in the latest QM catalog. Apparently they had 5 sitting there at QM ready to go. I got it in 2 days. Not bad.

The bellhousing was a lost cause, thankfully I have a couple extras. Had it machined to spec and its ready to go. I'll spend tomorrow making sure everything meshes properly and, if it does, we'll be back to the dyno/computer doc on Monday. I don't think we will make the 23rd, but I've paid for track time on Jan 2. It better not be raining!!

John Lindsey with Nasa may still come by on Saturday and look at things. I know we will have to alter a couple of items to run in AI instead of AIX so it'll be interesting to see what he comes up with. I'll report back.

Bob

[8T6 SVO]

Bob,

The least I can do is wish you well, and hope you make your track day. It been a long process, but you've got to be close ?!?

When does the season start?

[Horsewidower]

March 8/9.

Here is the full schedule:

http://www.nasaforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=19311

I'm thinking we do the SVOCA trackday event that we talked about at either the Willow Springs or late Buttonwillow event, if those also have associated HPDE classes. I wonder when Vince will be ready?

Greg, you ought to come down and see the car over the holidays. I'll be home from the 22nd until January 6th. The engine is nothing special (at least not on the outside) but the suspension is pretty cool.

Bob

[Horsewidower]

Anyone know why when I try to post pics from photobucket I now receive an "invalid url" from the attachment manager? I'd like to post things again.

Bob

[Horsewidower]

Problem solved, sort of.

Given "Bob's rule of aftermarket parts" I decided to check the new QM flywheel before I put it in. Guess what, it has 135 teeth, a stock flywheel has 132. ARRRGHHHHH. I ran it across the starter teeth and, of course, it bound up. When I went from a low torque 86 starter, which would just burn out, to a high torque starter, it tore up the flywheel and bell housing. Well it looks like if I'm going to make it back to the dyno on Monday I'm going to have to put the stock flywheel and clutch in. I'll have to demodify the Tilton hydraulic throwout bearing in order to get the clutch to work. Wish me luck!

The tech inspector came out, I'm OK with everything except the things I knew would need some work. I've got to get a little more weld on the roll bar at the roof, or add some gussets and I've got to get some stock inner fenderwells dzused on the rear. When I have those things done and the car back from the dyno, he'll issue the log book.

So no surprises there.

Bob

[8T6 SVO]

The tech inspector came out, I'm OK with everything except the things I know would need some work. I've got to get a little more weld on the roll bar at the roof, or add some gussets and I've got to get some stock inner fenderwells dzused on. When I have those things done and the car back from the dyno, he'll issue the log book.

So no surprises there.

Bob

Vince could probably get some good tips from your tech inspection.

I'm hoping to take Christmas week off completely - sounds like I need to come by.

[Horsewidower]

By all means, come on down.

Well the attempt to change back to the stock clutch and flywheel didn't go well. The throwout bearing on the Tilton hydraulic system doesn't have the necessary diameter to push the fingers on the stock system. Looks like a call to Quartermaster will have to be made on Monday to sort things out on their flywheel. I checked their catalog for a starter that will work with the 135 tooth flywheel and didn't find one. I talked to my welder/machinist about cutting the teeth off and pressing a stock ring gear on. Not alot of meat on the flywheel for that. I suppose we could press it on, weld it and rebalance it. I'll also check with Tilton about a different diameter throw out if I can get it quick and use the stock one just for dynoing.

I've got plenty of things to do, so I can keep working while I'm sorting it out. I'll have to make a judgement call on Jan 2nd on Monday. If I don't think I can get it done, they have a 15 day cancellation policy. Crap!!

The Nasa exec was pretty excited to see a turbo 2.3. Very encouraging.

Bob

[vrinner]

Bob,

Anything in particular other than the welds at the roof line? I've got gussets at my roof line points.

I think I'd be interested in where your electrical cutoff is/can be mounted, fire system pull, and fuel line issues (how and where it was ran).

For fuel lines, you used braided hose as opposed to hard lines?

For the inner fender, do you just need to rivet in some plastic all the way around? Thats the route I think I'm going instead of finishing the wheel well in fiberglass. I figure I can go to the junk yard and find something close and then cut and form from there. Do you need both front and rear enclosed?

[Horsewidower]

Vince: Sorry for not responding sooner.

On the welds on the cage, they are simply looking for 360* of competent welds. Our problem is that the cage builder built the cage so close to the roof line that he couldn't get the full 360* without cutting on the roof. There are some other techniques that could have been used, but they weren't, so we are looking to gusset if we can't build up some more weld.

The electrical cutoff is mounted on our dash just to the right of the driver side A pillar. He liked that alot. The fire pull is mounted on the top driver side bar, he didn't like that, worried that it would shear off in a roll over. He suggested that I move it to the tranny tunnel, I countered with moving it to the driver side middle bar. I'm waiting for his reply.

In the fuel line, mine are hardlines mounted inside the car along the inside rocker panel near the floorpan. We discussed that at length. I think he would have preferred braided stainless steel as there is more give in a side collision. Neither one of us was thrilled by running them on the bottom of the car with the possible exposure to curbs, off track excursions etc. We agreed that I needed to cover the hardlines in order to control any leakage if they cracked.

On the inner fenders, my fronts are not enclosed. The rears require, for AI, a stock inner fenderwell, what you choose to line the flare extension is up to you. Riveting plastic would probably be very easy. Mine are fiberglass.

Bob

Picture shows electrical cutoff and fuel lines on the far right.

[Horsewidower]

Here are some pics of the dyno shop. Dynapac dyno. He specializes in NSXs.

[Raven855]

Nice shop! I like the mini. I lived in Charlotte and had a friend there from England who raced 3 of them, great fun! I also raced carts, I'm a little heavy to do that now:doh: The car is looking great! You know that lite blue color means you have an "available" daughter to alot of the older folks. Its also suppose to attract fewer bugs, but apparently it has no affect on the starter kind ;)

[vrinner]

Vince: Sorry for not responding sooner.



No problem...thank for the info.

So on the fire pull, there is just one pull, and it should be near the outside of the car, right?

[Horsewidower]

Vince: My system has only one pull and its near the outside of the car. I'll take a picture of its new position tomorrow and post it. We moved it from the upper driver's side bar to the dash near the electrical master switch. The Nasa inspector did not like the original position.

Well we've put in two nine hour days and a couple of 3 hour days to try to get things finally finished. So:

Finished gusseting the roll cage. Done
Finish mounting rear window. Done
Finish mounting front window. Done
Plumb the Accusump. Done
Move the transmission tunnel back. Done
Build the CCW wheels. Done
Get the RA-1s mounted to the CCWs. Done
Remount the nose structure (must be the sixth time) so its removable. Done
Remount the fire pull to the dash. Done
Rewire (again) for a different starter. Done
Install flywheel and clutch assembly. Done
Install new starter and bell housing. Done
Start the car!! NOT DONE. :mad:

We still are having an interference problem with the QM flywheel and (now) the Pinto starter. We've got 12 amps to the starter, when the starter is laying on the floor, it spins properly. But, when its in the car, it won't turn the motor. Motor turns by hand; its not stuck. Tomorrow I'll work on clearancing the ears and the bell housing so that I can move the starter away from the flywheel. This has been quite a problem.

1. Where the fire pull was, where it went.
2. mmmmmm, CCWs
3. Moving the transmission shifter hole back 3/4"

Bob

Oh, and Merry Christmas everyone.

[Ken Potter]

Very cool... :cheers:

[8T6 SVO]

Vince: My system has only one pull and its near the outside of the car. I'll take a picture of its new position tomorrow and post it. We moved it from the upper driver's side bar to the dash near the electrical master switch. The Nasa inspector did not like the original position.

Well we've put in two nine hour days and a couple of 3 hour days to try to get things finally finished. So:

Finished gusseting the roll cage. Done
Finish mounting rear window. Done
Finish mounting front window. Done
Plumb the Accusump. Done
Move the transmission tunnel back. Done
Build the CCW wheels. Done
Get the RA-1s mounted to the CCWs. Done
Remount the nose structure (must be the sixth time) so its removable. Done
Remount the fire pull to the dash. Done
Rewire (again) for a different starter. Done
Install flywheel and clutch assembly. Done
Install new starter and bell housing. Done
Start the car!! NOT DONE. :mad:

We still are having an interference problem with the QM flywheel and (now) the Pinto starter. We've got 12 amps to the starter, when the starter is laying on the floor, it spins properly. But, when its in the car, it won't turn the motor. Motor turns by hand; its not stuck. Tomorrow I'll work on clearancing the ears and the bell housing so that I can move the starter away from the flywheel. This has been quite a problem.

1. Where the fire pull was, where it went.
2. mmmmmm, CCWs
3. Moving the transmission shifter hole back 3/4"

Bob

Oh, and Merry Christmas everyone.

You will definately be well versed in fox race cars after your done with this one. I'm sure you can pull the tranny and have it back in in less than an hour now.

Merry Christmas, and as always, nice read.

[vrinner]

Vince: My system has only one pull and its near the outside of the car. I'll take a picture of its new position tomorrow and post it. We moved it from the upper driver's side bar to the dash near the electrical master switch. The Nasa inspector did not like the original position.

Well we've put in two nine hour days and a couple of 3 hour days to try to get things finally finished. So:

Finished gusseting the roll cage. Done
Finish mounting rear window. Done
Finish mounting front window. Done
Plumb the Accusump. Done
Move the transmission tunnel back. Done
Build the CCW wheels. Done
Get the RA-1s mounted to the CCWs. Done
Remount the nose structure (must be the sixth time) so its removable. Done
Remount the fire pull to the dash. Done
Rewire (again) for a different starter. Done
Install flywheel and clutch assembly. Done
Install new starter and bell housing. Done
Start the car!! NOT DONE. :mad:

We still are having an interference problem with the QM flywheel and (now) the Pinto starter. We've got 12 amps to the starter, when the starter is laying on the floor, it spins properly. But, when its in the car, it won't turn the motor. Motor turns by hand; its not stuck. Tomorrow I'll work on clearancing the ears and the bell housing so that I can move the starter away from the flywheel. This has been quite a problem.

1. Where the fire pull was, where it went.
2. mmmmmm, CCWs
3. Moving the transmission shifter hole back 3/4"

Bob

Oh, and Merry Christmas everyone.

Well thats a nice big list of Done! Congrats on that.

Thanks for the info on the fire pull.

[Horsewidower]

Well, another 12 hour day. Car is ready to go to the computer doc again. Let's go over the list.

Fire system finished except for installing the cable in the bottle, don't want to do that until we are done crawling around inside. We don't want to hook the cable and set off the system.

Flywheel and starter seem happy. We checked the backlash and the depth. Everything seemed happy. Puzzling. We then tried to start the car (no tranny in). Solenoid click and nothing. Then smoke, oh ****!! Couldn't find any burnt wires (I was thinking I'd need lessons from Pat on how to put smoke back in the wires). Well hit the start button again, solenoid click, then smoke, again!! We pulled the main wiring harness out of its cover, still no burnt wires :confused: I crawled under the car and told Roger to push the button. Holy crap, the braided steel line that goes to the oil pressure gauge was smoking along its entire length. :eek: As any normal American male, I reached up and grabbed the line, and burnt my hand. :doh: The car was trying to ground itself through the line and actually welded itself to the hard brake line that it was touching. Insufficient grounding for the starter, and I would assume most of the rest of the systems. We fabbed up some grounds and the starter spun like its supposed to. Of course we had to replace the oil pressure gauge line.

Transmission in. Done
Driveshaft in. Done
Dropped the Circle wheels and Kumhos off to have the tires shaved.
Exhaust system in. Done
Changed the oil and plugs.
Dropped it on the ground and got it ready to go.

Called Shad and told him we needed the car back by Friday COB in order to make the Jan 2 track day. Being a cautious guy, he said "maybe." He also knows this bitch and how difficult she can be.

Some gratuitous pics:

[8T6 SVO]

Then smoke, oh ****!! Couldn't find any burnt wires (I was thinking I'd need lessons from Pat on how to put smoke back in the wires).

That Magic smoke is hard - once it comes out, it doesn't go back in.

Best of luck with Shad, please post when you plan on being around his shop and having him tune the car.

[Horsewidower]

I'll be at Shad's at about 9:30 today, for probably about an hour. Then sometime tomorrow. Probably around 4:00??

Bob

[8T6 SVO]

Dang,

I spent most of the day today in Rancho Cordova. I'll call you and try to stop by tomorrow afternoon.

Shad's in the Gold River area right?

[Horsewidower]

Driving Ambition
2378 Gold River Road #11
Gold River

[Horsewidower]

AAARrrghhhhhh ":IM":I:M":J}{>>}{>()*^&*$#$!!!!!!! POS haltech!!

Bob

[CP86SVO]

AAARrrghhhhhh ":IM":I:M":J}{>>}{>()*^&*$#$!!!!!!! POS haltech!!

Bob

What happened?

My impression is that the Haltech is faulty...time to get it replaced with a known working unit.

WS

[Horsewidower]

Yep, that's what I'm thinking. Its either that or there are some bad wiring connections. I'd like to shoot the guy that did the wiring, we've found several bad connections.

Its a funny problem, it'll work fine, then you shut it off, turn it back on and its scrambled.

I'm going to give Shad Weds and Thursday to get it going, he's going to call msd and haltech, and if it isn't fixed I'll bring it home and R&R the wiring, and probably send the Haltech in for a once over. Meanwhile, I think I'll swap in a stock harness and ECU and at least get it running and out to the track.

Bob

[Horsewidower]

Well I'm looking at alternative engine management systems.

I looked at just throwing on a stock ECU, but I'm eventually going to need to run 2 injectors per cylinder. Given the success folks seem to be having with the Megasquirt, I think I'll head that direction.

My biggest concern is whether or not the box can take the vibration and beating that happens with roadracing. Anyone have an opinion? Sure you do!!

Bob

[CP86SVO]

Well I'm looking at alternative engine management systems.

I looked at just throwing on a stock ECU, but I'm eventually going to need to run 2 injectors per cylinder. Given the success folks seem to be having with the Megasquirt, I think I'll head that direction.

My biggest concern is whether or not the box can take the vibration and beating that happens with roadracing. Anyone have an opinion? Sure you do!!

Bob

Get a Megasquirt 2 with the surface mount board:

http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/megasquirtii-system-pcb357-assembled-unit-p-165.html?osCsid=e555b0c5a56b39b8d3b4d317c8fb438c

and this:

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=MSD%2D8823&N=700+115&autoview=sku

then tell me how it works!!!

:)

[Horsewidower]

That's what I'm thinking. I'll write it up when I'm installing. I'm thinking more and more of just cutting Shad off and going for it. At 125 an hour, I can pay for this thing pretty quickly! At least I'll know how the wiring system works!!

Bob

[Horsewidower]

Well, went up to see Shad today and discuss where we are. I've given him until Friday afternoon, he thinks that the issue is the wiring between the Haltech and the MSD. We discussed whether or not it was an EMI problem, grounding, trigger, programming etc. Its interesting to note that there is almost no discussion on the Haltech forums about this problem, but there are 65 threads about Haltech and MSD compatability on the MSD forum. Somebody had to point out to me that the MSD forums might have a solution.:doh:

The MSD box is giving the LED code for a loss of trigger signal, yet the haltech shows that it is getting a strong and steady trigger as the RPM on the screen is steady. :confused:

When I got there today, they were going through the wiring between the two boxes, we'll see what happens.

Bob

[8T6 SVO]

I stop by Shad's and met Bob today. He's got the motor running real smooth......up to 4800RPM. The car looks GREAT! It's one of those cars that you have to see in person to really appreciate. LOTS of detailed work. It's bad a$$.

Looking forward to seeing this car in action. For us 2.3 Turbo guys - It's an exciting thing to see.

[Horsewidower]

Thanks for the kind words Greg.

Shad seems to be on the right track. He had to rewire several things and separate out some wiring to get rid of the EMI problems. It seems to run fine up until 4800 rpm then starts breaking up. Shad says it seems like almost a rev limiter, but those have been disabled in both the MSD and Haltech.

We'll see what happens. Just two preliminary runs on the dyno 202 hp and 230 torques at 4800 rpm, 11psi. Very little tuning done. We'll easily make the 290 limit for AI legal. We may be running as little as 8-9 psi.

Bob

Bob

[Horsewidower]

I finally went back and talked to Brian Kennedy at BMEP out of Austin Texas. Brian sold the Haltech to Clay Autery, I bought it from Clay. I had talked to Brian about two years ago. Brian distributes the Haltech to dealers, and is intimately familiar with them.

He was very emphatic that the MSD and Haltech are pretty incompatible. They can be made to work together with some filters and other work arounds, but in the end would be unreliable. Funny, when I told Shad that, he stated that he hated MSD boxes also and agreed that it was best to take it out.

We are going to use 4 individual coils with integral ignitors. That should work quite well, according to Brian, provided that we haven't damaged the Haltech in the meantime. I should have everything together by Thursday and hopefully have the car up and running by this weekend.

Cross your fingers folks, Mike throw on some crocodile tongues and I'll get out the spray and hose everybody and everything down with it. Maybe we'll finally have it working.

Bob

[Horsewidower]

Well, Shad must have figured out the problem. He left me a message that he'd run out of injector (35s) and to bring back the 96s. Hopefully I can give everyone a great report tomorrow.

Bob

[Horsewidower]

Well it's coming home on Friday. Fix the transmission, mount the harness, nut and bolt and away we go. Anyone know where I can buy input shaft preload shims?

Bob

[Pat_in_L.A.]

Hanlon?

[MikeFleming]

Anyone know where I can buy input shaft preload shims? What size(s) do you need? I bought one of the seven-thousand piece Ford kits a couple decades back and still have a few left.

There's also a company that has a "Peel 'n Place Shims" thingie available. Haven't used it but it seems like it would work:

http://www.5speeds.com/t5/shims.html

[Horsewidower]

Mike: Thanks for the offer, I don't know what I need yet in thickness because the transmission is still in the car. It works in 1st and 3rd gear, pops out of 2nd and 4th. I didn't set the preload when I changed to the Tilton bearing retainer. :doh:

Shad is using 1st and 3rd on the dyno. Hopefully its not killing the rest of the tranny.

Bob

[MikeFleming]

It works in 1st and 3rd gear, pops out of 2nd and 4th. I didn't set the preload when I changed to the Tilton bearing retainer. You know that sounds more like a linkage adjustment or carpet fouling issue to me. Granted, there's no carpet in the way but you get my drift. Maybe your shift handle extender thingie is mal-adjusted? You could disconnect it nad install a normal shift handle as a temp test?

I could see it if the mainshaft endplay is huge, >0.10" or so (compared to the spec of 0.000"), but if it was that bad I'd expect all the little synchro-spring-do-dads to fly all about when it pops out of gear, especially on 4th popping. And there would be bad noises associated with that too.

Let us know what you find when it's out.

[Horsewidower]

Will do. No bad noises yet so cross your fingers.

Bob

[MikeFleming]

... so cross your fingers. No way!!

You're on your own as far as victory or defeat. I'm sure you'll be just fine since there's really no luck issue here - it's all about preparation, vigilance, taking good notes and keeping records.

[Horsewidower]

Not even some crocodile tongues? Man you are tough, but right on.

Ordered the shims from the site you referred. Thanks.

Bob

[Horsewidower]

Well, after many delays, the car ran around under its own power in the parking lot of Shad's place. :woot:

Looks like we are finally back on track. Now to fix the tranny problem and finish preparing the car.

Bob

[8T6 SVO]

:woot: :cheers: :woot: :cheers: :woot: :cheers:

[Horsewidower]

My sentiments exactly!! Thanks.

[Raven855]

Well, after many delays, the car ran around under its own power in the parking lot of Shad's place. :woot:
Bob

Is that w/ the 96s and the individual coils? Fantastic work by the way!

[Horsewidower]

Its with the 96s and the msd box, we burnt up the individual coils when the battery charger charged the system to 19v. We'll go back to the individual coils after we run it on the track and get set to do the race tune. Fitz sent me some chevy coils that he uses and told me about the '95 ranger cam sensor. We'll use that system eventually. It currently has a safe mild tune and we are running on the wastegate. Pretty mild at the moment.

Bob

[Horsewidower]

Well, our goal is to get on the track in the next 60 days. Roger is coming over tomorrow and we'll survey the pick-up work that needs to get done. I picked up a nasty chest cold and threw out my back with all the coughing so things have slowed down.

I picked up a bigger odyssey battery in order to make sure we can fire this cold-blooded beast. We've got a lot of heat shielding to place and safety wiring to do. Rog might take the time to mount the rear wing, a G-stream airfoil that is supposed to be good for 600 lbs of downforce at 100 mph.

Of course we still have the tranny problem, until we get that taken care of we won't be on track anywhere.

We've lined up a private airfield for initial runs, we'll probably setup a slalom course just to check the dynamic transitions.

This is the year we get on track, I can't wait.

Bob

[MikeFleming]

This is the year we get on track, I can't wait. You have an on-board camera mount?

[Horsewidower]

Sorry Mike, no don't have an inside camera mount.

Well, had a good day yesterday. Changed out the smaller Oydessey Battery for the next larger size. Roger dropped the tranny on the ground in record time. Geoff changed out the brake bias from the hydraulic knob type to the cable bias bar type. I hacked and coughed my way through repacking the front wheel bearings and we started nutting and bolting and rearranging the wiring to avoid heat and rub points. We set the car to ride height and hooked up the front sway bar. We'll get the tranny sorted this week and hopefully back in the car by Saturday.

Sunday Rog and I are going to Sears Point to watch the season opener for the Western States Endurance Series' 2 1/2 hour race. We'll grab a set of tires from AIM to put on the spare rims. We won't shave them, they'll be used for running around the airstrip and as wet tires.

Misc. pictures.

1&2 the boys in the jungle gym

3. spindle shot.

[Pat_in_L.A.]

We'll grab a set of tires from AIM to put on the spare rims.

Tell Ron that I said hello. Ask him to tell you some of our old racing stories.

Hey I recognize that front spindle. It's actually the stub of a floater rear axle tube. I have those on the front of my IS car.

[Horsewidower]

Will do Pat.

The spindles are probably overkill, but circle track stuff is cheap, and readily available. After waiting for 4-5 months for Griggs to send us our pre-paid dropped spindles, we canceled the order and redesigned with Sweet Spindles. That change rippled through the entire front suspension geometry, but we think it'll be better in the end.

Bob

[Horsewidower]

Just set the appointment for the final inspection and logbook issuance for Feb. 23. Now I just have to make sure its finished!!

Bob

[Horsewidower]

:woot: :woot:

Got the tranny back together and in the car this morning. Rog, Geoff and I worked all day on finishing all the little nit-pick items. Loaded it up and took it down to the airstrip.

WOW!!

LET ME SAY IT AGAIN

WOW!!

This is an e-ticket ride.

Tracks straight, even under braking. The manual steering is just right, I can't imagine having power steering on this thing. Nothing fell off, or broke. The 5.5 clutch pretty much requires you to rev it up and dump it to get the car going.

With the big injectors it loads up at anything less than 4,000 rpm. Shifting at 7,000 keeps you from having that problem. :D

Geoff's daughter took some video, we'll see if our computer inept selfs can get it posted.

Now its off to Thunderhill next Friday for a track day. That will be the true test.

Bob

[Raven855]

Congrats! You sound like a kid in a candy store! Did Rog and Geoff get a chance to drive?:rolleyes:

[Horsewidower]

Geoff actually drove first. Rog, is shorter than Geoff and I so the seat and pedals weren't set up for him. We have to make a seat insert for him for the endurance races we hope to compete in.

Bob

[MikeFleming]

Party On, Wayne!

[8T6 SVO]

Party On, Garth! (err - Bob)

[vrinner]

Congrats! Glad to hear it's finaly doing what you built it to do!

:woot:

[Horsewidower]

Thanks guys, I really appreciate it.

[CP86SVO]

Remember to install an in-car camera and post up some videos too!

Have fun!

WS

[Horsewidower]

Well for various reasons the track day is off this Friday. Work is getting in the way of my fun!! I did lay down the coin for HPDE 4 at Thunderhill on May 8th, Geoff will probably run on May 9th and we'll do a full blown test day for Roger at Thunderhill on the 13th. The goal will be to have Roger ready to run at Sears for our first AI race in April. I've got some licensing issues that will probably preclude me from W2W until the fall. Roger's 30 years of driving experience from Southwest tour series to former SFR GT-1 champ to Super Production is certainly going to catch some people by surprise, now it'll be making sure the car is up to the task.

First time I went racing with Roger, he hadn't pulled his car out of mothballs for 6 years. We cleaned it up, went down to Willow Springs where he proceeded to qualify on the pole. During the race he spun it into the infield gathered it back up and still won the race. He is incredible.

Looks like we also picked up a paying sponsor, American Chiller Service. They are Geoff's long time employer and have been fascinated by the effort. They been kicking in spent high tonnage chillers that we scrap for the metal value (do you know what copper goes for per lbs these days!) and will kick in some cash and uni's for the team.

With the rush to get ready for Friday gone, I'll spend the next two evenings getting the car all prettied up for the logbook inspection on Saturday. I'll post pics of the car all decaled and striped this weekend.

Bob

[Horsewidower]

Today ranks as number 4 on my list of the absolute best days ever. Only my wedding day and birth of my two sons rank higher. What a rush.

John Lindsey came over, teched the car and issued the logbook. After 3 1/2 years gestation period, we have a racecar. :woot: :woot: The rollbar has been stamped with our official chassis number.

He flat loves the car, asked me to e-mail some pictures to him and will try to get John Thawley, a writer with "5.0 Mustang" to do an article. Wow, that would be a riot.

I'll post pictures later, we worked late last night getting the car ready and got up early this morning to make sure we had everthing together. I'm going to take a nap. :sleep:

Bob

[larry_s]

Today ranks as number 4 on my list of the absolute best days ever. Only my wedding day and birth of my two sons rank higher. What a rush.

John Lindsey came over, teched the car and issued the logbook. After 3 1/2 years gestation period, we have a racecar. :woot: :woot: The rollbar has been stamped with our official chassis number.

He flat loves the car, asked me to e-mail some pictures to him and will try to get John Thawley, a writer with "5.0 Mustang" to do an article. Wow, that would be a riot.

I'll post pictures later, we worked late last night getting the car ready and got up early this morning to make sure we had everthing together. I'm going to take a nap. :sleep:

Bob

Congrats!!!!

[Pat_in_L.A.]

John Thawley is still alive?

[Horsewidower]

Damn Pat, I don't know the guy. That's what John said.

Well in the interest of throwing far too many photos at you, I've put it in a slideshow. I need to figure out how to edit it, but in the interest of time, here it is:

http://s136.photobucket.com/albums/q181/horsewidower/Late%20Build%20Photos/Lipstick%20on%20the%20pig/?albumview=slideshow

Bob

[Horsewidower]

Here are some pics I'm sending to NASA. Let's see what comes of it.

Bob

PS, Pat, its E. John Thawley.

[1HOT4OT]

Man that is sweet!I hope you the best!

Tim