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  1. #1
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    No clutch or wasted T5?

    Is there an adjustment for the clutch on my 85 svo?
    This car was a basket case when I started and now that I have the engine running excellent, the trans will not shift.
    I originally had to pull up on the clutch peddle to get the cable to go on the fork.
    Now no clutch.
    The clutch was suppose to be newer and the cable had been replaced.
    I realize troubleshooting this over the internet is kinda ridiculous but I really don't want to put a clutch in this thing and find out the problem is the trans is junk.
    Any advice will be appreciated.
    is there a way to adjust this thing?

  2. #2
    OVER-BOOST!! kiwi's Avatar
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    You can shift without a clutch..to see if trans good.....get underneath there and see if the fork moves with a good prybar
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  3. #3
    OVER-BOOST!! svono50's Avatar
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    Even with things pretty far out of whack our T5's can generally limp around. When you pull back on the clutch pedal, the quadrant spring should self-tension the cable. When you release the back pressure on the pedal the small pawl teeth should engage with the quadrant and hold it steady. Are you sure the cable is getting tensioned properly? If it still has some slack it may not be fully disengaging the clutch. With the car being a 'basket case' to start with likely have to work through each system to see what the root cause is. One other thing, does the tranny have the correct fluid in it?? The T5 uses ATF, not gear oil. Gear oil can work in temps above 60 deg F, but feels closer to molasses below that temp. I performed this exact mistake with a transplanted 84 T5 in a former Mustang of mine. Just a thought.
    Ted
    86 SVO Mustang
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  4. #4
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    Actually it is like the clutch is not even there.
    With the car running I cant shift into any gears.
    The clutch peddle sits about 3" higher than the Brake peddle, I'm not sure if this is an issue. When I first got the car and had yanked back on the clutch peddle as I had been instructed to do to be able to attach the loop from the cable to the shifting fork. Before that I had to use a pry bar to get the loop on with the 1.5 inches of travel it took to attach the cable to the peddle. IM not sure if this had taken Adjustment out of the clutch or not.
    I'm used to having a threaded rod on the end of a clutch cable and doing the adjustment from there. I see no such adjustment on the mustang, but im sure there is a way to do it.
    I also do not want to preload the clutch so much that it takes out the thrust bearing in the motor. Im pretty certain that this is not an issue with fluid
    Anyone have any tips on how to adjust a clutch on this car?
    I have my motor working excellent now.
    Went to move the car backwards last night and I have no clutch.
    This car was a basket case a short while ago and All that was installed was the long block and the trans. The guy I had bought the car from said the clutch looked fine and I was inclined to believe him but did not inspect it for myself.
    I originally had a problem with the new clutch Cable he had installed being about 1.5" away from where the loop hooked to the shifting fork assembly and was concerned about putting to much Preload on the pressure plate. The peddles were in a more even relationship before I had pulled up on the peddle.
    I did not want to take out the thrust bearing in the motor, so I was instructed to pull up hard on the clutch peddle to release the adjustment so the cable eye and the linkage it hooked to were more in relationship with each other.
    Now no clutch.
    On most cars the shifting cable has a threaded end and you would tighten a not to adjust, that is not the case here and I am stumped.
    The guy I bought the car from said the motor was rebuilt, it was. Most everything he had told me was correct but he also told me he owned the car 10 years and never finished putting it back together. I'm hoping that this issue is something that I can remedy with an adjustment.
    He said the clutch looked new. I would like to think he was being honest and really I am not here to debate that, just want to try and get this ford running and driving before it starts snowing for the next 5 months.I had mentioned in another post that the trans shifted into gear without the car running. Any help is appreciated
    Last edited by soldthedart; 10-01-2014 at 07:23 AM.

  5. #5
    OVER-BOOST!! kiwi's Avatar
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    So it shifts fine not running...Is current cable putting preload??? Then take the cable off and manually operate the fork ---fine?? Or is the TO bearing "jammed" somehow??? then you probably need a new proper cable....
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  6. #6
    OVER-BOOST!! svono50's Avatar
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    Our cars, along with the Fox 5.0L crowd use a self-adjusting type clutch cable setup. I know the cable system you are used to, the pre-5 speed Mustangs used that setup like on my former 80 Mustang 2.3L. We don't have that capability with our system.

    If your pedal is sitting that high, there may be something wrong with either the cable or the connections. The pivot mechanism down on the tranny should look like a backward Z, with the bottom leg of the Z being the cable from the pedal hooked to a horse shoe type clip. The top leg of the Z is the 'dogbone' cable that links between the pivot arm and the throwout bearing arm. The dogbone cable connects to the pivot arm with a horse shoe clip and directly to a pocket on the TB arm. Make sure all that is in place and correctly connected (I will have to dig up a picture when I get home if needed).

    On the pedal end, the cable comes through the firewall and the fitting end hooks onto the quadrant, as I am sure you are familiar with now. There is a smaller 'pawl' that grabs onto the quadrant when you depress the pedal. When you pull the pedal up toward you, the pawl hits a bracket that disengages it from the quadrant. This allows the spring on the quadrant to tension the cable and effectively the TB against the pressure plate fingers. When you push the pedal back down the pawl should re-engage the quadrant and all things should be good. The pedal should always reset to the same height after the adjustment, but the engagement point may move if the pawl to quadrant engagement has changed.

    Make sure the cable's grommet is properly seated against the firewall and the retainer clip is installed. If you disconnect the cable from the pivot arm, the TB arm should move easily forward/backward...at least till you touch the pressure plate or tranny in either direction. I wonder if the TB arm isn't properly connected to the TB itself?? Only thing I can suggest is starting at one end and work your way to the other, the answer has to be there somewhere.
    Ted
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  7. #7
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    The peddle sits at least 3" higher than the brake peddle, that cant be right.
    I removed the drivers seat and manually actuated the adjuster by depressing the peddle and holding the quadrant in place when I pulled the peddle back up.
    The good news is the trans shifts just fine, the bad news is Im pretty sure the clutch is done.
    The clutch slips under load and engages and disengages about an inch off the floor. So I would think that if I added any more adjustment up on the quadrant that it would slip worse than it does now. If I take adjustment out I would think the clutch would not work at all. Not to mention my auto adjuster does not work on its own at all.
    How do I disengage the clutch adjuster to start over? I pull up on the peddle and nothing happens I even took the cable off the trans, still pulling up on the peddle does nothing..
    Last edited by soldthedart; 10-01-2014 at 08:59 PM.

  8. #8
    OVER-BOOST!! svono50's Avatar
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    Just checked my car and my clutch pedal sits ~1" higher than the brake pedal, so something doesn't seem right. Since you have the driver's seat out that makes things a little easier to observe while laying on your back looking up at things under the dash...ask me how I know. Check to see if the pedal arm is properly engaged on the end of the quadrant shaft. I believe it engages over a square bore, so you can only clock in 90 deg increments.

    If the clutch grabs, but slips just an inch or so off the floor, then either the pressure plate isn't fully engaging due to cable tension, TB binding or worn clutch as potential options. To get the clutch to engage/disengage higher off the floor, the quadrant needs to be rotated back away from the firewall.

    Below are a couple pics of a quadrant/pawl system out of the car for reference. In the second pic I put an arrow in the approximate place a tab pushes the pawl up and rotates it away from the quadrant engagement teeth. The tab is part of the pedal frame and fixed in position, when you pull back on the clutch pedal, the pawl will be pushed down against the tab. Laying on your back, pull up/back on the clutch pedal with your right hand and see if you can feel/see the pawl move. If it does, then see if you can manually rotate the quadrant back and put some additional tension on the clutch cable, while holding the tension release the pedal to re-engage the pawl against the quadrant to hold it in place. Add just a bit of tension over the quadrant spring tension to see if it changes the clutch engagement/disengagement height. If this does seem to work, then it looks like you may have a worn clutch issue on your hands rather than a cable/quadrant issue.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by svono50; 10-01-2014 at 10:11 PM.
    Ted
    86 SVO Mustang
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by svono50 View Post
    Just checked my car and my clutch pedal sits ~1" higher than the brake pedal, so something doesn't seem right. Since you have the driver's seat out that makes things a little easier to observe while laying on your back looking up at things under the dash...ask me how I know. Check to see if the pedal arm is properly engaged on the end of the quadrant shaft. I believe it engages over a square bore, so you can only clock in 90 deg increments.

    If the clutch grabs, but slips just an inch or so off the floor, then either the pressure plate isn't fully engaging due to cable tension, TB binding or worn clutch as potential options. To get the clutch to engage/disengage higher off the floor, the quadrant needs to be rotated back away from the firewall.

    Below are a couple pics of a quadrant/pawl system out of the car for reference. In the second pic I put an arrow in the approximate place a tab pushes the pawl up and rotates it away from the quadrant engagement teeth. The tab is part of the pedal frame and fixed in position, when you pull back on the clutch pedal, the pawl will be pushed down against the tab. Laying on your back, pull up/back on the clutch pedal with your right hand and see if you can feel/see the pawl move. If it does, then see if you can manually rotate the quadrant back and put some additional tension on the clutch cable, while holding the tension release the pedal to re-engage the pawl against the quadrant to hold it in place. Add just a bit of tension over the quadrant spring tension to see if it changes the clutch engagement/disengagement height. If this does seem to work, then it looks like you may have a worn clutch issue on your hands rather than a cable/quadrant issue.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Here is a pic of my peddle arrangement, is this about right?
    I have the quadrant adjusted less than the position you have shown with it laying out of the car but it is close to the end of travel.
    So if I run out of teeth it is definitely the clutch and I have some more work to do tonight.
    Here is a pic of the peddle assembly, maybe its right I dont know.
    http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/a...002_041205.jpg
    Last edited by soldthedart; 10-02-2014 at 06:08 AM.

  10. #10
    OVER-BOOST!! kiwi's Avatar
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    Last post I make unless you get underneath the car and check it right at Trans,,,,the clutches are pretty durable and the pedal is high for another reason...
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by kiwi View Post
    Last post I make unless you get underneath the car and check it right at Trans,,,,the clutches are pretty durable and the pedal is high for another reason...
    I did get under the car and removed the cable and there is no inspection plate to remove to look at the clutch.
    With the cable removed the peddle flops down as expected. The linkage that bar and the little dogbone cable seems to be properly attached from what I can tell.
    Maybee I can find a refrence to look at , I can take a picture if that would help. Is there anyway I altered the peddle height when I pulled up on the peddle?
    I agree that the peddle height dosnt look right, as every other night so far this week I will get under the car. Just not sure what to look for.

  12. #12
    OVER-BOOST!! GAboySVO's Avatar
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    On the road warrior, I was in traffic and pushed on the clutch to shift to second gear, the pedal went to the floor and I could not change gears. I thought for sure it was the dog bone cable broken, but i looked underneath and all was well. It turned out that the pivot pin had punched through the clutch fork.

    If you remove the dog bone and then the dust cover, you should be able to use a light and mirror to inspect the clutch.
    Mike S

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  13. #13
    OVER-BOOST!! svono50's Avatar
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    I am starting to think there may be something awry with the clutch fork allowing the cable/system to be skewed. I just snapped a pic of my linkage (see below), sorry for the poor angle, but there isn't much room to get under my car at ride height. My pivot arm is aligned slightly clockwise of straight up, about 15 deg (i.e.- upper end between 12 & 1 on a clock). I am going to guess that yours is rotated further at rest. The distance between the bellhousing tab and lower clevis pin centerline is ~5-5/8" for another reference point to compare. If some of the spring arms in the pressure plate have failed, you would get similar results to your issues as well. My guess is you are going to have to drop the trans to get to the bottom of this one.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Ted
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  14. #14
    OVER-BOOST!! svono50's Avatar
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    I should have answered your questions first. Your pedal arrangement is correct, except for the higher than normal clutch pedal position. Maybe that is something they tweaked between the model years, but I have only driven 2-3 other SVO's and I can only recall one of them not being an 86. Of course, they were all many moons ago, so I can't say one way or another. Pay no attention to where the quadrant and pawl are to each other in my pic, that was just the position the quadrant found with no cable and sitting out of the car. See my pic in the previous post for what your arrangement should look like under the car. Yes, I know, my dust boot fell apart probably 10 years ago and I have been just too lazy to find a replacement.

    I did get a chance to scan an illustration out of the shop manual (see below) showing an exploded view of the clutch works, where you can at least get an idea of the components hiding in the bellhousing. Keep at it, you will get this figured out.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Ted
    86 SVO Mustang
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  15. #15
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    After reinspecting the trans at the clutch fork level all appears to be as you show in your picture, I removed the dusboot where the dogbone is attached and the shifter cable and all works smoothly. So I reinstalled the cable and readjusted the quadrant.
    Got under Dash and found someone has modified the fulcrum that the Clutch peddle actuates when you pull up on it.
    Had to push up on the bottom of it while depressing the peddle to release the catch that maintains the two parts of the quadrant and then pulled back on the peddle to adjust the quadrant further to the end of it's travel.
    This moved the clutch being engaged and disengaged father up away from the floor.
    Now the clutch disengages about half of the peddle travel that was good.
    Still slips! I Pulled the Trans last night, Changing the clutch out after work today. Hope I can get the flywheel resurfaced tonight so I can be done for tomorrow.

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