Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 16 to 24 of 24
  1. #16
    12 PSI Boost
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Brooklyn NY
    Posts
    31
    Quote Originally Posted by gbeaird
    The amount of pressure, even at race speeds, are not enough to lift a steel SVO hood off the fenders.
    I agree but I was thinking a smaller amount of flex could be sufficient to do what I described.

    The TC has a lot better air flow control, probably spurred on by what was discovered with development of the SVO.
    Given the TC preceeded the SVO I find that difficult to accept. In my opinion, this fact makes the culprit of the front bumper hood gap all the more probable.

    ...it has a (deeper) chin spoiler, which will help the car pull air through the radiator...
    I haven't seen stock photos that show this. If there are any differences, it doesn't appear to be significant in the Fox era TC. Pull up some ground level profile photos and see for yourself. LINK: http://www.mustangandfords.com/event...e-super-coupe/.
    I'm not speaking as an authority and @Laredo is right to point out my unfamiliarity with the SVO but I am not bereft of logical reasoning and something about the explanations given so far seem 'off'. Why isn't the IC used for forced air intake, how is it currently routed?
    Last edited by yldouright; 07-13-2018 at 07:22 PM.

  2. #17
    the well known PIA VIN guy Ken Potter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Woodstock, Georgia
    Posts
    7,490
    SVO's: 84,85,85.5,86x2
    I'll go ahead and say it. I don't think anything anybody here has said, or will say in the future will suit you.


    Later...

  3. #18
    12 PSI Boost
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Brooklyn NY
    Posts
    31
    @Ken Potter
    I seem to have offended you and if that is so please accept my apology. I tend to resist things that don't make sense to me, it's not personal.

  4. #19
    the well known PIA VIN guy Ken Potter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Woodstock, Georgia
    Posts
    7,490
    SVO's: 84,85,85.5,86x2
    Quote Originally Posted by yldouright View Post
    I tend to resist things that don't make sense to me...
    You've got four guys, me included, that have a combined total of at least 80 years experience with SVOs yet you continue to doubt and question us.

    I'm an original owner since 8/8/85 ( nearly 33 years ) and currently own 5 SVOs. I have owned another 8 over the years which I've sold. We all have both open track, auto cross, and daily driving experience. I can't count the number of times I've been 100+MPH. I highly suggest you do some research before asking any more questions, then doubting what you're told.

    If we tell you something you can bet good money that we know what we're talking about.

  5. #20
    the well known PIA VIN guy Ken Potter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Woodstock, Georgia
    Posts
    7,490
    SVO's: 84,85,85.5,86x2
    Quote Originally Posted by yldouright View Post
    [COLOR=#333333]Why isn't the IC used for forced air intake, how is it currently routed?
    If you can seriously ask this question you need to read up on how turbo charged engines work, and not just on SVOs.

  6. #21
    12 PSI Boost
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Brooklyn NY
    Posts
    31
    @Ken Potter
    I have expertise in certain things and I view challenges to what I know as opportunities to show and confirm this expertise. There are occasions when those challenges expose a superior understanding or evidence I hadn't considered. When that happens I gracefully cede the point and thank that challenger for these improvements in my knowledge. I have found that this habit has made me many friends and more importantly, it has encouraged many to feel free to debate with me. This has made me a sounding board for experts in numerous disciplines. They appreciate my candor and my insistence on factual evidence and in turn, I appreciate the exposure to things I don't know. I do run into people that get groused when I call them out on something and they often cite their years of experience and blah blah blah but I remind them that my greatest joy in life is making everyone understand things better so we all can do better. If that person recognizes this as a worthy reason for my challenges, we usually make friends and learn more together as we go forward but if that person equates my challenges with pulling his pants down in public, things don't end that happily.

    I am aware that a typical intercooler receives charged air from the turbo which then goes to the intake manifold but given the unique placement of the intercooler in the SVO I suggested a superior design potential which the SVO team might have thought of already. Evidently they didn't use that routing and that is a shame because I think it would work much better. In my head, I imagined the dirty air intake from the scoop passing through the IC fins into the filter through a duct and then to the charger. This feedback rerouting has many benefits which I am in the process of quantifying as I write this. At first glance, it looks like 11hp on a stock engine with a longer, taller a slightly flatter torque curve but it could very well be much more with other work because of how it reduces air intake pressure through the filter. The line between a dumbass and genius is usually defined by who does the evaluation

  7. #22
    OVER-BOOST!! gbeaird's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Pearland, Texas
    Posts
    1,900
    SVO's: '86 2R
    Um, no. Cool air passing through the IC would extract heat from that IC. You don't want heated air going into the air cleaner unless it's very cold outside. Even then, heat generated by compressing the air will negate most, if not all of any disadvantage to ingesting very cold air.

    On a turbocharged car at boost, heat is the enemy, both from a hot IC and hot air getting into the intake tract. It's a quick way to kill power.
    Gene Beaird,
    86 2R SVO, G Stock,
    Pearland, Texas

  8. #23
    12 PSI Boost
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Brooklyn NY
    Posts
    31
    @gbeaird
    Thanks for engaging me in this exercise. Think about what you're saying. Don't we want the charge entering the engine to be as cool as possible? If so, it's better to cool it later than sooner! Air, like most fluids, has a geometeric pressure curve. Pressure doesn't change much 40-120F degrees at bar relative to what happens at 2 bar. Look at the numbers and see for yourself. Now, picture this feedback scenario at speed where the air is forced into the plenum without the engine bay 'balloon' effect that prompted this innovation in the first place. Efficiencies are gained all around and you have just what you want for engine volumetric efficiency; tension at low rpm to keep a nice torque and decreasing resistance as you climb the revs! If you can fit a plenum under the SVO intercooler, this could be a genius improvement

  9. #24
    Pimpin Pumpkin Carver Laredo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Stillwater, MN
    Posts
    1,157
    SVO's: 86 2R
    Quote Originally Posted by yldouright View Post
    …If you can fit a plenum under the SVO intercooler, this could be a genius improvement
    Genius? Not so much Einstein.
    Gene (as usual) is correct.

    Quote Originally Posted by yldouright View Post
    …Think about what you're saying…
    I’ll toss this right back at you.

    I see where you are attempting to go with your theory of the compressed heated air, think refrigeration. But what you’re missing (and Gene tried so politely tried to explain to you) is that while in your model the heat extracted from the intercooler gets essentially pushed back “upstream,” it is still just that – upstream. Which means that “uncompressed” heat will come back into the turbo inlet as warmer than ambient air, and get recompressed again to go right back into the intercooler…again. It would be like taking your window air conditioner out of the window, setting it in the middle of the house and expecting it to cool the room. You have gained nothing.
    25 years of automotive product development, durability testing, and field engineering have taught me that in general, the most reliable and cost effective means of engineering a solution are the most basic. K.I.S.S.

    Back to basics (again):
    • Pull your intake air from the coolest, highest pressure, and efficient airflow available, the front or inner fender air flow (which the SVO does in stock formation)
    • Get the intercooler also into a cooler airflow (and away from being parked right over the top of the sometimes glowing red turbocharger. This is one of the more “un-genius” features of the SVO).
    o Front mount (away from the turbo)
    o Or…Insulate the turbo (ceramic, etc)
    "If there's no plan, what can go wrong...?"

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •