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Thread: H&R Spring Guidance

  
  1. #1
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    H&R Spring Guidance

    I am currently in the middle of a suspension project on my 84 and can't make up my mind on this last step. Here is the list of items under the car:

    - MM Subframe Connectors
    - Chuck Warren poly engine mounts
    - Koni Red's that have been rebuilt in the last 30-40k miles

    Items Being installed with this project:
    - MM Extreme Solid LCA's
    - MM Factory rear uppers and rubber axle busings
    - Eibach 25mm Rear Sway bar
    - MM CC Plates
    - Poly trans mount, Front LCA Bushings, Ball Joint boots, Tie Rod Boots, F&R Spring Isolators, Rack Bushings, Rag Joint Bushing


    Having all of this work being done, I believe I would be foolish not to do something with the springs on the car. From everything I have read, the Eibach springs are not that great in our cars. I have read that everyone pretty much swaps over to H&R springs after being disappointed with the Eibachs. I am THIS close to pulling the trigger on the H&R Race Springs 51650-88, but I am concerned about how they will jive with my stock Koni Red's. I think the H&R Sports might drop the car too much and introduce ground clearance issues and geometry issues, but I am open to suggestions.

    To save the inevitable "What are your goals with the car" question, I will answer with: I am not sure. I like the way it handles now, I just am looking to have it handle better what I have now. I guess an all around car with good handling in the corners.

    I have also been given the suggestion of the Ford Motorsport B Springs.

    Any guidance provided will be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks!
    Sam

  2. #2
    OVER-BOOST!! Bruce's Avatar
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    I am guessing you searched H&R springs on this site and found Teds 17 years and counting thread. http://www.svoca.com/forum/showthrea...mp%3BR+SPRINGS He has covered the spring evolution in his car quite well. I can say the H&R sports work a lot like stock but lower. I can't speak for the race springs though. If your driving on the street mostly I would stay away from the race springs, IMHO.
    Bruce

  3. #3
    OVER-BOOST!! gbeaird's Avatar
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    Hmm, I'd never heard of those motor mounts. I guess I live a very-protected life. Not that I think we need any now, I'm checking availability now to see about getting a set for my spares box. Heck, who knows, when they arrive, I may just swap them in so the OEM mounts are my spares.

    EDIT: I emailed Chuck, and he quickly replied, indicating that he no longer makes those mounts. Hasn't for a couple of years. He did say there is another company that's supposed to start production, but had no ETA at this time. He's supposed to share the contact info with the company. I may pester them for any updates they may have when I get it.
    Last edited by gbeaird; 01-21-2019 at 02:10 PM.
    Gene Beaird,
    86 2R SVO, G Stock,
    Pearland, Texas

  4. #4
    OVER-BOOST!! svono50's Avatar
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    As Bruce mentioned, you are following a similar path as to what I have over the years. Just remember that opinions are sometimes jaded by expectations, where if they don't meet some made up expectations then they are a crap product. That is why I ended up doing some phone calling to both Eibach and H&R before purchasing springs and compiled information in this thread:

    http://www.svoca.com/forum/showthrea...ch-spring-info

    With that information gathered and knowing that I still wanted a car I can drive on sunny days and long road trips, while still having 'fun' at an auto-x or HPDE w/o purchasing a kidney belt, I ended up purchasing the V8 Eibach Pro-kit. The progressive rate type spring is more street friendly than a static rate spring, since it is a little softer in the first 3/4" of travel. The H&R Race units are listed as progressive, but only 50lbs, so I would tend to consider them to be a static spring rate.

    I also called Koni to confirm that the spring rate up front was 'acceptable' to the factory Reds in our cars (i.e.- special valving compared to other Mustang variants) and they felt that the Pro-kit was at the top of the capability, but ok to use. I would suggest giving Koni a call and see what they feel about the rates of the H&R race units you are considering, since having an under-damped setup would end up being a bit bouncy and not fun. My initial 'guess' is that they will recommend an upgrade on the front struts at a minimum so you don't send your Koni Reds to an early grave.

    It really does come down to what you want to do with the car and what you consider 'acceptable' from a ride standpoint. I am pretty fine with a firm ride that other folks I know can't stand, so take that FWIW. Also, consider you may not be happy with the initial setup of the car and may need to change things. I ended up finding out that the 'balance' of my car out on the road and auto-x courses wasn't where I wanted it and started looking closer. My car was lifting the inside rear wheel as if the front was too soft and tending to oversteer and couldn't power out of a corner. Found that I had bind between the 4-link and Watts link, so I removed one of the upper links and the car now rolled the rear too much limiting front end grip (i.e.- understeer). That led me to talking with MM and installing one of the rear 'torque arm' spring kits that brought me back to a much more 'neutral' handling car that ended up giving an improved street ride...go figure!

    Hope I didn't overload you there, fingers sometimes get happy on the keyboard ya know...
    Last edited by svono50; 01-21-2019 at 01:19 PM.
    Ted
    86 SVO Mustang
    17 Cooper S Clubman ALL4

  5. #5
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    Ted,
    Nope, no overload at all. I appreciate your detailed reply. I am going to continue digging and see what I come up with. One of the things I need to source is replacement rubber pivots for the rear shocks and quad-shocks, so I will be calling Koni anyway so see if i can buy those. :-)

    Gene,
    Those poly mounts were manufactured by Chuck Warren and I purchased mine almost 10 years ago. I just installed them last year. I don't know if he is still making them, but his website is still up: http://www.turbochuck.com/motormounts/

  6. #6
    OVER-BOOST!! gbeaird's Avatar
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    Sam,

    The answer is no. I updated my post earlier when I got a reply from him. Awaiting an update to contact info for the company that's supposed to be taking over production now. Funny, his web site is still up, and he says to contact him for availability, even though he's ceased production. At least his response was quick and not all bad news.

    Quote Originally Posted by IRSmart21 View Post
    Ted,
    Nope, no overload at all. I appreciate your detailed reply. I am going to continue digging and see what I come up with. One of the things I need to source is replacement rubber pivots for the rear shocks and quad-shocks, so I will be calling Koni anyway so see if i can buy those. :-)

    Gene,
    Those poly mounts were manufactured by Chuck Warren and I purchased mine almost 10 years ago. I just installed them last year. I don't know if he is still making them, but his website is still up: http://www.turbochuck.com/motormounts/
    Gene Beaird,
    86 2R SVO, G Stock,
    Pearland, Texas

  7. #7
    14 PSI Boost
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    SVO's: 1985 1/2 9L
    I have the H&R Race springs on my car, along with the stock valved Koni's (not the originals, they were leaking, but a pair that I bought new) on front and Koni DA's on the rear. My front suspension is otherwise stock except for CC plates and poly bushings in the LCAs, sway bar and steering rack.

    I do not think that the springs are too stiff in any way, shape or form. If anything, they are not stiff enough. Although my car is trending rapidly toward track-only, it is totally streetable and I drive it to events and frequently when doing tuning work on the Pimpx. Even though I keep the shock/strut setting on soft when driving on the street, I don't think the ride is harsh, instead, it is quite cushy IMHO. When the struts are set to full hard (only the rebound is affected) the ride is significantly more harsh, but I don't get any sense that the spring rate is overpowering the damping. It certainly doesn't oscillate in any way. A DA front strut would be great, but it is also a pipe dream with the OEM spindles.

    I do have an issue with ride height however. I think that the front end sits too low and that significantly limits the down-travel of the front end. I installed a pair of stiff Ford Motorsports bump stops on the strut shafts to absorb over-compression and add stiffness when nearing the limit of travel. I would really like it to sit about 3/4" higher in the front. The rear is not a problem at all.

    Like Ted, I have a Fays Watts and I also have the Eibach rear roll bar and MM lower arms. I currently use the PMTL setup with one OEM upper with a soft OEM bushing on the chassis end and a spherical bearing on the axle housing. It seems to work OK for what it is. I have considered a torque arm but have not pulled that trigger. The car has enough rear grip that it tends toward understeer in most situations. I am not yet skilled enough at driving to work the car at it's current limit, so developing that skill is first on my list at the moment.

  8. #8
    OVER-BOOST!! gbeaird's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gbeaird View Post
    Hmm, I'd never heard of those motor mounts. I guess I live a very-protected life. Not that I think we need any now, I'm checking availability now to see about getting a set for my spares box. Heck, who knows, when they arrive, I may just swap them in so the OEM mounts are my spares.

    EDIT: I emailed Chuck, and he quickly replied, indicating that he no longer makes those mounts. Hasn't for a couple of years. He did say there is another company that's supposed to start production, but had no ETA at this time. He's supposed to share the contact info with the company. I may pester them for any updates they may have when I get it.
    Update: Chuck Warren emailed me with a link to another couple of guys making polyurethane motor mounts:

    https://tbirdcougarparts.com/index.php

    I have. a set on order. I'll let everyone know when they hit the door.
    Gene Beaird,
    86 2R SVO, G Stock,
    Pearland, Texas

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