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Thread: Resurrecting The Dead

  
  1. #1
    Just a bit of BOOST
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    Resurrecting The Dead

    Original owner of 84 SVO parked it in garage quarter century ago did not know I was parking it for a long nap. I've replaced tank, sending unit, pump, filter, and injectors. Blew out fuel lines and cleaned out intake manifold. I'm getting 48 lbs of pressure, which i'm lead to believe is good. I've replaced wires, cap, rotor, coil, plugs, ignition module, and starter solenoid. Spark tester gives a bright flash. Engine turns but won't fire. It appears i'M getting fuel and spark but not at same time? I've read the procedure for adjusting timing, appears to be beyond me. (A man has got to know his limitations!) Am I missing something? The timing belt was replaced but car was used very infrequently afterwards (family's needs came first). I do remember prior to long nap car was starting to run rough, worse at lower speeds. The exhaust manifold got cherry red which can indicate a timing problem. I'm open to suggestions before I take my chances with mechanic

  2. #2
    OVER-BOOST!! gbeaird's Avatar
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    SVO's: '86 2R
    Welcome to the list!

    After trying to start the car, have you pulled the plugs and had a look? Are they wet, dry, colored?

    Additionally, have you chased the intake path to make sure there aren't any obstructions, like a (tree)rat's nest in the air filter box, or elsewhere? Does the turbo at least still spin? Just some random thoughts to look at.
    Gene Beaird,
    86 2R SVO, G Stock,
    Pearland, Texas

  3. #3
    OVER-BOOST!! roberto2000's Avatar
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    SVO's: 1985 4E + 1c 84 1e
    Just a thought ... Have you gone through the whole procedure to check cam timing? I am thinking possibly the distributor could be 180 out or possibly the distributor gear could be an issue.
    Rob

    85 4e

  4. #4
    OVER-BOOST!! svono50's Avatar
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    SVO's: 86 1C
    I am on the same track as Rob, based on your description of what was done/happened before parking it. I would focus on cam then ignition timing.
    Ted
    86 SVO Mustang
    17 Cooper S Clubman ALL4

  5. #5
    Administrator SVOeric's Avatar
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    SVO's: 86-1C & 86-1E
    yep.. .sounds like timing, possibly cam AND ignition.
    FIRST -- cam timing.
    four stroke engine, crank turns twice, cam turns once.
    for cam timing.. it's pretty simple, -- with the engine at TDC (on crank pulley) the notch on the timing gear should be aligned with the marker on the plastic timing gear cover (shown in pic 3 below). this is NOT 10 degrees. it should be at zero on crank, and zero on cam.
    -- if the cam gear isn't 'close', turn the crank another full turn, til it's on zero again, and it should be close.
    IF these don't match up, -- stop here, no reason to go further-- we'll need to go through the process of redoing the belt.

    NEXT -- ignition timing
    Ignition timing is also fairly simple, but will require a timing light..
    to get it close, to where the engine will fire. with the crank at TDC, and the cam on the timing mark, Note where #1 spark plug wire is on the cap. pop the distributor cap, and the rotor should be pointing at #1.
    if it's not, you'll need to pull the distributor, move the rotor, and stick the distributor back in. Typically takes a couple stabs.

    when you get it 'there' just tighten the hold-down snug. so you can make small adjustments. you don't want it to move easily, but you do want to be able to turn the distributor.
    now plug your timing light in, and start the car. If it does not want to start, move the distributor (handy to have a 2nd set of hands to turn distributor while someone cranks, if it don't kick off)
    once running, now adjust your distributor using your timing light til you are @ 10 deg BTDC, (not ATC)
    Dont forget to tighten the distributor bolt back down. good idea to check it again to make sure it didn't move when you tightened it.

    ALSO -- don't forget firing order is 1,3,4,2. make sure your plug wires are in that order connected to the cap, rotor turns clockwise.

    here's a couple images that might help..
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails crank-timing.png   crank-mark.png   cam-mark.png  
    Eric C
    SVOCA Webmaster

  6. #6
    OVER-BOOST!! gbeaird's Avatar
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    SVO's: '86 2R
    And I don't know the success of other's timing belt work, but I've done that job twice, and had a buggar of a time getting everything to line up properly. I thiink one time I actually quit for the day and picked it up the next day because I was so frustrated with it. Getting a tooth off is easy, getting it right is haaarrrdddd. :-)
    Gene Beaird,
    86 2R SVO, G Stock,
    Pearland, Texas

  7. #7
    Administrator SVOeric's Avatar
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    SVO's: 86-1C & 86-1E
    if you've replaced or 'adjusted' the belt, you really need to get the the belt to the correct tension, rotate the crank a couple times, then check tension again... THEN confirm your timing.
    if the belt don't get those couple of rotations, it gets stretched in some places, not in others, and can give strange readings.

    I am assuming his belt is already properly tensioned, so the CHECK procedure is fairly easy.
    the frustrating part comes if it's NOT aligned... which is why I said
    IF these don't match up, -- stop here, no reason to go further-- we'll need to go through the process of redoing the belt.
    Eric C
    SVOCA Webmaster

  8. #8
    OVER-BOOST!! svono50's Avatar
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    SVO's: 86 1C
    As someone who used to 'regularly' adjust my cam timing at the drag strip between runs...usually one 1-2x per day at the strip...searching for the best ET's, I ended up getting too good at playing with the timing belt. Doing it for the first time is certainly daunting, but don't fear it too much. Our engines are not 'interference' engines, so no danger of slapping the pistons up into the valves if you get it wrong the first time.

    For tension on the belt, you should let the tensioner do the work and not pry it tight!! Here is my long-winded process of how I have done this over the years with great success. When you loosen the tensioner, first slightly loosen the pivot bolt that the spring wraps around to allow the tensioner plate to rotate (*important detail that fouls up a lot of folks), it is 19mm if my memory serves me right. Next, loosen up the tensioner lock bolt with a 13mm socket wrench. Now you can pry the tensioner away from the belt by placing the pry bar/big screwdriver shaft against the pivot bolt and tip against the tensioner roller/belt. Snug down the tensioner lock bolt to hold it away from the belt. Now the belt can be slid off the cam gear to allow the cam to be aligned properly. Slip the belt back on the cam gear, keeping tension toward the distributor gear side of the belt and slack toward the tensioner side of the belt. If there is some slack in the belt to the dizzy side, you can bump the cam counter-clockwise to take up any slack. **Be careful not to bump too hard and slip the belt on the crank or dizzy gear, a light bump on the cam pulley bolt is all that should be needed. Then you can make sure the belt is neatly over the cam belt tensioner pulley. Loosen the tensioner lock bolt and let the spring apply pressure against the belt. Now manually bump the crank clockwise (maybe 1-2 deg) with a socket on the crank pulley to make sure there is good tension from the cam pulley down around the dizzy pulley and crank pulley. Now tighten down the cam tensioner lock bolt and then the pivot bolt. You should be ready to crank it over and run it. Once fired up, you can shut it down after 30 or so seconds to verify the belt still has the proper tension. If not, loosen up the tensioner bolts, manually bump the crank by hand, retighten the tensioner bolts and test fire. Hand rotate the crank to TDC and verify the timing belt alignment. Whew, now grab a cold beverage of your choice and move onto the ignition timing to verify you didn't bump the dizzy gear if it isn't running as smooth as expected.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Good luck and let us know what you come up with.
    Last edited by svono50; 12-11-2019 at 10:54 PM. Reason: Add picture
    Ted
    86 SVO Mustang
    17 Cooper S Clubman ALL4

  9. #9
    Just a bit of BOOST
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    Happy New Year everybody and thanks for the info. I have checked it's not ignition timing alone. Considering whether cam timing is within my abilities. I do own a timing gun however I tried to clean some muck off the timing marks and removed part of the decal. Are the timing belt covers w marks generic for all 2.3s?

  10. #10
    OVER-BOOST!! gbeaird's Avatar
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    Not 100% certain, but fairly sure they are. If it fits, it'll have the right markings. I got a replacement off a Turbo Coupe to replace the cracked one on our 86, and the markings are the same. So at least the 80's turbo 2.3 covers are the same.

    Note that if you get all the bolts that secure it to the engine off, the cover will lift right off. If it's not, there's still a bolt somewhere. There are, I believe, two on the passenger side of the block, one with a Phillips screw head in the center, and a couple on the driver's side of the block. You will have to remove the cover to verify the cam timing.

    It's not that difficult, just tedious, since you can't just eyeball a line between the cam and crank gears, like you can most pushrod engines. There are marks at each, and you aligh those with respect to each gear.
    Gene Beaird,
    86 2R SVO, G Stock,
    Pearland, Texas

  11. #11
    Administrator SVOeric's Avatar
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    SVO's: 86-1C & 86-1E
    Yes, the timing covers are the same for turbo and non-turbo. Matter of fact, if you can find one from one of the EARLY 2.3's, they were metal (I dont recommend it, they tend to rattle and clang like crazy)

    you won't need a timing light for cam timing, nor will you need that decal, it won't help.
    Anyone should be able to at least CHECK cam timing, and the cover really does not need to come off..

    You'll notice in the top of the cover, there is a rubber plug, remove that plug, through that hole, you can see the cam pointer, which should line up with the notch on the cam pulley. ---- but you should be able to see the marker and the pointer through the hole.

    look at my previous post in this thread, the first pic, and the 3rd pic (which you will see through the hole in the cam cover)
    if those 2 line up, you are golden. if not, it will need to be corrected, and no amount of ignition timing will help.
    and as I said, if they are WAY off, rotate the crank another turn, and compare again.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails crank-timing.png   cam-mark.png  
    Eric C
    SVOCA Webmaster

  12. #12
    12 PSI Boost
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    SVO's: 1986 1D
    I would also check compression. If you have decent compression then disregard this post. On the rare occasion, if you were cranking and cranking and she does not fire you could get "cylinder wash". This is when gasoline pools on top of the piston and washes away your oil coating on the cylinder wall and the piston compression rings. I doubt this is the case for you but sometimes you have to look at the oddballs when things are not working.

    You also mentioned that your exhaust manifold got cherry red last time it was running. Well then I could entertain that you possibly could have a few burned exhaust valves, or if not burned then maybe now sticking open from sitting all these years laying dormant. This could also give you low compression. If you have low compression in 2 cylinders she may not fire at all. You could pull the valve cover and see if all valves are cycling up and down evenly as someone cranks. Compression check is better way to check though.

    Engines are simple....Fuel-Air-Compression-Ignition = Combustion

    You will figure it out. Simplify the troubleshooting and check all of the above.

    You already know you have FUEL and Ignition and prob Air. Your ignition timing may be wayyyy off or its compression. Thats where I would look.
    Let us know how you make out.

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