Megasquirt file

[Horsewidower]

So how much is it Vince? Maybe we can sell someone a package deal.

[vrinner]

So how much is it Vince? Maybe we can sell someone a package deal.

You would think that between the two of us, we could get at least one of them running! At least yours runs...ooops...I mean ran. I'm sure that my issue must be the sensor gap...I think I'll have to leave work early today and get it done.

[Horsewidower]

my electronics and your engine and we'd be there!!

[Horsewidower]

Never, I say, Never!! (well except for the DD SVO, which ummm, needs a few things)

[vrinner]

VR sensor fixed

Well, I had to take the lower pully and gear off to get the VR sensor bracket off. Ovaled out one hole as per Kens suggestion. Got it all bolted back up, turned on MegaTune and the RPM was consistant at around 250-275 while cranking!

Turned on the fuel pump and it just crank over. I do see both outer LED's on the MS blinking alternately.

I checked the timing and while cranking it's right at TDC. I may end up at this point just waiting for my local MS friend to come by and get it running. Unless someone can offer some other bit of magic voodoo to make it run. The MS ran in Kens car and I haven't changed anything in Megatune. Possible spark plug reversal?

[fastmonkeywheels]

Are your injectors firing? Have you verified that you have fuel entering the combustion chamber?

Also check that your actually getting good spark at the plugs while cranking. MS has an output test mode under "Tools" I believe, that allows you to fire the fuel injectors and coil pack without cranking. Figuring out the settings has always been my problem with the Output Test Mode.

[Horsewidower]

I think its back to basic trouble shooting time, now that you have a steady rpm signal. So we go back to fuel, spark and timing.

1. Put a timing light on cylinder 1. Not one of those fancy type, a cheap 35 dollar - pull the trigger for a light, no dial timing light. You have a waste spark setup and the fancy ones don't work in my experience. Burned one up. If you don't have a timing light, pull the spark plug out, leave it hooked to the plug wire and see if it sparks while you are cranking it over. Alternatively, have Pat hold the plug while you crank it over so that it will light his cigarette If you have no spark, you've found your first problem.

2. You haven't mentioned the smell of gas or having gas run out the tail pipe (We had that happen when we turned on the prime map damn good thing it didn't light off!!) I'm not being sarcastic here, have you checked that you have fuel in the tank? My first mechanic spent a couple of hours trying to get mine to run before checking to see if there was fuel, he was fooled by the fact that the FP Gauge showed pressure, it was just pushing air. We previously had fuel in the tank, showed pressure at the FP gauge, and it wouldn't flow fuel through the injectors. When we cracked the line at the rail, there was no fuel. Finally pulled the inspection plate off the fuel cell to find that the supply line to the bottom of the tank hadn't been connected to the bulkhead fitting through the plate

3. One easy way to find out if you have injectors firing fuel is to just pull the #1 plug, unplug the coil and then crank it with a rag over the plug hole. Keep a fire extinguisher handy. Rag comes up wet, smelling of gas, not a fuel delivery problem, yet. Given that it isn't popping or farting it means that you have a spark problem. Rag doesn't come up wet, then work you're way through your fuel delivery system to see where the gas is stopping. If there is gas at the injectors, there is your problem. Which is probably a wiring issue. If not at the injector, work back. You get the idea. Did you plumb your FPR correctly, etc.

4. Let's say you're really feeling lazy. Ok, grab some starting fluid from the local Autozoo, unplug one of the vacuum/boost fittings on the intake mani, spray a quick shot into the hole and then immediately crank it. If no popping or farting, I'd look for an ignition issue. If you have some noises you can identify with a car that is trying to start, you have a fuel issue.

5. I'm betting that you don't have a timing mark or pointer. If you don't, I'll walk you through what we did as a stop gap.

Hey, why am I helping you, it might cost me

[Horsewidower]

Good point Mike. V, you might want to make sure you have a little oil pressure first.

[vrinner]

Good points Bob...here is what I've done...

#1. I have a cheapo timing light. Just a trigger. Put it on #1 plug wire and it fires at TDC.

#2. I smell gas and have a wet spark plug when I pulled it out. I do smell fuel coming out of the exhaust.

#3. I think #2 takes care of that one..right?

#4. Haven't tried that yet.

#5. For my timing point, I took my old one and held it in place where it should be using the two holes that the VR sensor bracket uses to connect to the block. I put the #1 cyl at TDC then made sure that my crank pulley was at TDC. I made a visual note of where the timing pointer should be, cranked the engine over with the timing light and it lines up pretty good with TDC when firing. Is this correct?

I think it's a timing issue. However at this point, instead of making my blood boil by working for hours and not getting anywhere, my other buddy who helped me the first time is coming over on Sunday afternoon. He is bringing his oscillascope (sp?) and whatever other tools or black magic voodoo stuff to get the car running. I'm truly fed up with this thing and would pay anyone the bucks just to get it running because I dont have the time or patients or knowledge to get it going.

Come Sunday it WILL BE RUNNING!

[Horsewidower]

Do you have a nice big ground wire on the head? Preferably traveling all the way back to the battery? If not, fix that now.

So, you say you have spark, and you have gas. But no sounds of an attempt to ignite? No bangs, no pops, not farts??

What size injectors are you running, are they the same size as the ones Ken used to run the MS on his car? If there is a prime map, try shutting it off. If you have spark and gas, then maybe you have a weak spark that's getting drowned. Hence the question about the ground to the head, which is a must.

You're going to hate this, but have you checked your cam and crank timing? And you must get a very accurate pointer. Take your front belt pulley off, set the crank timing gear to TDC and then check the cam and aux pulleys using the string test. When you are certain that you have that correct, affix a reasonably rigid pointer to the valve cover pointing to the 12 o'clock position on the cam pulley backing plate. Mark that spot so that it can be easily read. That's TDC for cylinder 1, now 4 will also fire here, so make sure you can identify it as #1, 180 degrees on that plate will be where 4 should fire (but 1 will also fire because its waste spark). The math tells you that 90 and 270 are where 3&2 fire. All plugs will fire twice during a 720 degree cycle. Now do a little math and figure out 10 and 20 degrees before tdc and make those marks. You can now check both banks of plugs to see when they are firing. If 1 an 3 are firing together, you know you have something miswired.

While you have the belt pulley off and things set at TDC, recheck your clocking on the 36-1 wheel. If you have it in the wrong slot, things won't work.

We swapped around the plug wires a lot to finally get it started on wastespark. At one point we were tricking the stuff to fire #1 at BDC, which you can do because both paired plugs fire at the same time regarless of whether or not the plug is in the correct part of the IC cycle.

As the Aussies said, you're just going to have to fiddle with it. Don't take anything for granted, check everything again.

I feel your pain, this was the most frustrating part of my build. And I paid someone stupid money and they didn't fix it right.

[vrinner]

WooHoo!

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2184282975350194746&hl=en

So here is the deal...

Got the motor running but it's pig rich at low RPM and super lean at higher RPM. The AFR is all over the place. Blip the throttle and it goes way lean instantly. Then drops back down just as fast.

I'm going to go ahead and move the wide band sensor to the top of the downpipe. I'm also going to change the plugs with new ones and verify gap.

Also my adjustable cam timing is all the way clockwise just to get it running. I'm thinking I need to step the timing belt back a notch.

At least it running which is HUGE!

[sar4497]

Got the motor running but it's pig rich at low RPM and super lean at higher RPM. The AFR is all over the place. Blip the throttle and it goes way lean instantly. Then drops back down just as fast.

All that just comes with the territory, and you should be able to tune your VE table in no time. As far as your lean tip-in, you need to set your acceleration enrichment, but do that after getting the VE table right. Use smooth, slow throttle inputs in the meantime.

[Horsewidower]

[Raven855]

Way to go Vince! But I got to say I'm disappointed! I had collected all my change and had saved a bunch of pennies to buy your car when it went up for sale......

[85ttops]

yay.......................... it lives