Feeler question

[NOTACARLO]

I find it hard to ask this question knowing how the Ford camp and GM camp love each other so.....but here goes anyway.


I am chatting with a fellow that can adapt GM MAF's (3" and 3.5") to most any vehicle via use of a translator. I'm sure he would do this if there was enough interest....specifically for the SVO.

The MAF's are fairly cheap and readily available.

If there's no interest, no biggie just putting it out there.

Dan

[BlueCASVO]

I am chatting with a fellow that can adapt GM MAF's (3" and 3.5") to most any vehicle via use of a translator.

Dan

Does it translate Spanish to English? Could really use that here in San Diego

Might be interested in trying it, depending on the cost.

[NOTACARLO]

Right now the systems are adapted to Buick, Subaru, Mitsubishi, Toyota, and most LS cars.

The translator also allows changes in the fuel curve by minute increments.

He's got a pretty cool speed density unit as well that eliminates the MAF.

Translators are about $199 and MAFs are about $180, but the changeable cores are $80.

[NOTACARLO]

Product Profile

MAF Translator Gen II
List Price: $249.99
Item Code: 050transgen2
Weight: 1.00LB
Brands: FULL THROTTLE SPEED & STYLE
Categories: MAF Translator Gen 2
Description

NEW MAFT Gen 2
This new version of the MAF Translator is a dramatic new upgrade from the regular unit. Borrowing technology from the Translator Pro, the Gen 2 now has the ability to adjust fuel + or - 60% in 1/2% steps across 14 RPM bands in 3 different load areas!

We have also added our "wideband tracking" technology to this unit. You can connect any popular wideband that has a 0-5 volt output on the controller and then you can set the desired A/F ratio across the RPM band at WOT. The Gen 2 will then track A/F and automatically adjust the fuel to keep the desired ratio. If the car leans out, the Gen 2 will add fuel and if the car runs rich it will remove fuel.


I have been told this unit will work with VAM/VAF vehicles.

[NEALD]

I think the speed density product would be great for people using a tuner.

[NOTACARLO]

Bob just got back to me and the GenII is the deal and you can swap to the big MAF's.

I am ordering one on the 15th and will report after I get it installed.

Also to add the MAFTPro is speed density. I had one of these a while back but didn't use a wideband, so I had to re-tune according to the weather.

[Alex L]

I think the speed density product would be great for people using a tuner.

people using a tuner would most likely drop in a LA3, GM BAP and ACT and run SD natively with a J3/QH. if they are going to drop $400 on sensors, they will likely go full aftermarket with megasquirt.

The MAF's are fairly cheap and readily available.
...
Translators are about $199 and MAFs are about $180, but the changeable cores are $80.

ford MAF drop right in with a harness adapter and a bin swap. no translator needed, and ford MAFs are easily acquired for less then $75.

the root issue is that the base computer tune on 2.3turbos is dumb; it assumes the airflow meter is pegged in a lot of the higher load/higher rpm bins. so if you want to swap to MAF command full authority over the fuel ratio under WOT, you must remove the WOT multiplier table, the BAP compensation lookups, modify the vam transfer, and all the other rigor needed for a MAF conversion. once you've gone down that path with a new bin, j3, burner, and tuner, you've already unlocked the la/pe series EEC for up to 112lb injectors and 63LB/min* airflow with full 2 dimensional tuning on fuel and spark. (granted, the PE tables are kinda tight) adding in another translation step adds another step of complexity to an already complex system.

*offer not valid in new york, California, Alaska or where prohibited by law.

[NOTACARLO]

people using a tuner would most likely drop in a LA3, GM BAP and ACT and run SD natively with a J3/QH. if they are going to drop $400 on sensors, they will likely go full aftermarket with megasquirt.





ford MAF drop right in with a harness adapter and a bin swap. no translator needed, and ford MAFs are easily acquired for less then $75.

the root issue is that the base computer tune on 2.3turbos is dumb; it assumes the airflow meter is pegged in a lot of the higher load/higher rpm bins. so if you want to swap to MAF command full authority over the fuel ratio under WOT, you must remove the WOT multiplier table, the BAP compensation lookups, modify the vam transfer, and all the other rigor needed for a MAF conversion. once you've gone down that path with a new bin, j3, burner, and tuner, you've already unlocked the la/pe series EEC for up to 112lb injectors and 63LB/min* airflow with full 2 dimensional tuning on fuel and spark. (granted, the PE tables are kinda tight) adding in another translation step adds another step of complexity to an already complex system.

*offer not valid in new york, California, Alaska or where prohibited by law.

Excellent to know.....WOW. Not valid in Alaska?!

Looks like there is a lot more to it than I originally thought. Your post above is exactly why I posted the question. No one knows better than you guys. You may have just saved me about $300.

[Alex L]

You may have just saved me about $300.

well, depending on what route you take, if you have to buy the whole kit...
LA3 EEC: $75
Quarter Horse: $250
Binary Editor Software : $60
MAF or MAP/ACT and various hardware : $100.
Wideband 02 : $250.
call it $750. that gets you access to a wide swath of ford ECU tuning; both mass air, and speed density. now, if you have a local friend with all the gear, you can get away with just a J3 chip and a MAF. j3 chips are $60ish. so you're still looking at an outlay of $160 for the hardware if you already have a PE/LA3 computer. + dyno time with a wideband to get it all dialed in. which is not really that bad of a deal if you ask me.

so, bringing this full circle, to get the stock computer 'close enough' to run an external computer feeding it mass flow, you'd need to swap ECUs (think AZ sells LA3s for $100 with a core) and put a base MAF burn on the J3 ($60). in addition to the extra hardware (MAF translator $250, GM MAF $150, WB02 $250), thats an outlay of at least $800 with a WB. since our EECs dont have diff-amp inputs on the mass flow signal, you'll want the transfer to be as close to 5v @ peak hp as possible, to bury as much noise as possible. and thats with stock injectors, if you went bigger, you have to adjust injector offset, and retrim the MAF transfer for the additional airflow. not to mention the timing tables dont scale up beyond stock power levels without mucking around with weird stuff (base fuel pressure, base timing, etc)

compare that to a full MSII assembled kit, harness, and simulator from diy-autotune for $600 that can do full time closed loop fuel trim with a WB02 input. (+$250, $850 total) if i didnt have as much timemoney invested in the QH1/EEC systems across my fleet of fords, id be going with said MS2 rather then a (very expensive) detail zone replacement harness.

[svobud]

Are you trying to put together a group buy? Or, just asking which set up if/will work?

[NOTACARLO]

Well kinda both.

The MAF translator alone is a great product. Just swithcing to a newr style MAF - plug and play.

I was informed the GenII and Pro will work, but that's a little more than I had planned for. I have experience with the Pro, but again I was going for the plug and play.

It seems I need to look into the Ford MAF conversion and do a little studying. The 80mm GM maf works with larger turbo applications and you can adjust the fuel curve - the same as with GenII on just the transator. You cant do it to the extent the GenII allows, but I don't know if you would need to.

I may be thinking too much. Having new twins may be making me a little loopy.

Bob Bailey has no support for the SVO, but many have used the SD and GenII on the V8 Fords. Since the GenII or Pro doesn't care how many cyinders you have or what make the vehicle is I suppose it is viable.

If I could drum up interest solely for the SVO, then Bob would support the users. All I need him to do is make the harness and have the translator convert the signal so the LA3 or stock ecm can use it.

You can use the GenII and Pro for performance gains, but I am not after that at the moment. I just want to put the vam in storage and use a MAF that I can buy readily when they fail.

I invite you guys to punch me in the gut at the 2011 Reunion for making you read through this.

[Alex L]

It seems I need to look into the Ford MAF conversion and do a little studying.

to start you on your studies:
chris roth's tuning write up
chris roth's maf conversion documentation landing page
svojohn's write up SD on LA3

[NOTACARLO]

Thank you Alex.


Dan

[blueboss]

Diyautotune also has the DIYPNP kits that directly replace the Ford EEC computer in both function and location for around $440. They run a modified code, completely tunable just like the normal Megsquirt and are speed density as well. Just throwing it out there.