Overnight blue smoke

[turbizzy]

Guys, i was wondering if you guys could help me out. On Sunday, i was really hammering my car and i've got the boost at approx. 18 psi. I didn't really let it warm up when i left and i got on the freeway 2 mins later. 10mins later on the offramp while coasting down the rpms in 3rd gear i noticed a cloud of blue smoke behind me. Seems to go away at idle or when cold but gets worse whenever i coast down in the lower gears. checked the dipstick, good. 50 highway miles to/fro work later, about a quart low. Parked it. Checked turbo inlet, intercooler, downpipe, no moist oil. Removed plugs, found #3 was covered in oil. Checked coolant, fresh green, checked PCV good. Dry compression checked it, all cylinders approx 150 psi 'cept for #4-145ish. Pulled off upper intake, valve cover, everything looks ....ok i guess, can't really tell if valve seals bad. Im going to cylinder leakdown test it hopefully this weekend but i was wondering if anyone had this similar situation or had some advise or test for me to try. What really confuses me is it didn't do this the night before and then suddenly now it does it. Maybe had something to do with my boosting so high or not letting it warm up. Replaced headgasket feb. of '03, change royal puple oil EVERY 3k.

Izzy

[kiwi]

Izzy...

...turbo seal?

[Gyrhead]

Sounds like it

The other day, we took the 84 "Project Bondo" slapper bar car out for a beat ride and while cranking down the road with my brother at the wheel (or what is left of the wheel) (I've been trying to convert him to 2.3 power over Ch*** 350s) the car started puffing like a mosquito fogger. Really funny to see that massive pall of blue smoke behind the car. The funny thing was that the car wasn't down on power at all and still pulled hard. I surmised that it was probably turbo seals right away due to the volume of smoke. The funny thing is that it would go away and them come back with no apparent correlation to throttle position. I would think it was related to boost pressure but we finished up the day with some smokey 50' posi burnouts up my driveway on bald tires and the thing stopped smoking and wasn't out of oil either. I usually don't beat on my cars, but "Project Bondo" is a major long-term restoration project. The roof is rotted nearly off, every panel has thru corrosion in it and the interior was eaten away by mice on the 20 year plan. I'm honestly shocked every time it starts. It just makes my 86' 2R car look like a concors show car.

Your problem sounds like turbo seals...after a major digression on my part.

Paul

[turbizzy]

Thanx for all the help guys

All your advise seems to get me back in the mood after debating wether or not to just give up.

It didn't even DAWN on me to check the O2 sensor for oil on it, ill go and check that right now! My car definately ran strong still before i pulled it apart and besides the cloud of oil, i couldn't notice any loss in power except at idle it would missfire just a bit to where i could hear the backfire quietly in my exhaust. Ill go have another looksee and report back ASAP.

Mike, my #3 plug was wet with oil from the the bottom of the threads to the bottom tip. That is why i think it is in the motor or more likely the head i.e. valve stem seals. But ill check the turbo more thoroughly.

izzy

[turbizzy]

Checked downpipe

Okay, i unbolted the downpipe and there was no oil there. I looked up the turbo exhaust elbow from underneath the car and i could see the oxygen sensor and both were okay, no oil, moisture or anything, just powdery black from exhaust fumes. Then again the car has been sitting for 3 days without running so i don't know if maybe it evaporated? or what, im in the SF bay area soo i guess its humid here. I honestly think its in the motor. if my compression was good then do you guys think my rings are safe to say are okay and that maybe its in the valve stem seals?

Personally, i think its best to do that cylinder leak down test right? That will tell me where my leak it pretty much right? I can't wait, i need to check now! but ill have to wait until i get my buddys compressor this weekend.

Thanx again for the advice. Keep it comming if ya got any.

[Pat_in_L.A.]

Originally posted by MikeFleming

... If someone brings a semi-disassembled CHRA to the reunion, Pat will be glad to show everyone what the hot and cold seals look like and how they function - while I hold his Guinness. Or of someone [other than Pat] offers to hold my Guinness...

Eric - do we have a white board and markers for the "conference" room at the hotel?

-Mike Fleming
/***/

YES I agree on getting the scribble board for the conference room.

I think that I have 20 or 30 turbos in the garage, so I'll scrounge up a parts display.

[SVOeric]

I'll see what I can do about a white board, and markers

[turbizzy]

Valve stem seals

Okay, so you guys say do them and get it over with, easy thing to do and if nothing changes, no big deal, just rip it apart again... OR... I do have that big valve head that was for sale on ebay a year ago with fresh seals, guides and bearings? I was kinda hoping to wait on the head swap since i want to get it professionally ported and i need to get the latter intakes since its off a turbocoupe and i was saving up for a A237.

Anyways, about the seals, i thought i read somewhere that the seals from a later turbocoupe are much sturdier or better, should i got those instead and what else should i replace while im at it and what type of costs/availability are we talking about? Being a dealer tech i might be able to get a discount on stuff from Ford since the owner of my dealer owns Towne Ford too.

Thanx for the help.

[turbizzy]

yeah, i think i will do the seals for now, then see what happens. what about the seals from a turbocoupe, those better?

izzy

[jayG]

izzy, my 84 used to have the same symptoms and I thought it was the turbo so I replaced it but it turned out to be the valve steam seals. The motor has 145k but it was as clean as a pin under the valve cover..I was totally surprised! Anyhow I used seals from the 88 turbo coupe ( a/b $2 ea from the dealer) and now it doesnt smoke a bit and it has been right at a year. I was able to change them with out removing the upper intake but it was pretty tight on the rear valve. But if you make the right kind of weird faces and use the proper adult language you can pull it off.....LOL. You'll have to use a special tool that has a claw on one end and a handle on the other to pry down on the spring. Other than that its not to difficult. Well just thought Id share that. Good luck.....jG

[turbizzy]

thanx

thanx jayg, i already got the upper intake off and the valve cover too. im just waiting for the seals now. Just out of curiosity, won't i need to have compressed air in the spark plug hole to hold the valves up while i take the spring off or no?

[jayG]

Yes you will..sorry a/b leaving that part out...jG

[turbizzy]

Seals on backorder

Well im still waiting on my new seals from FORD, they are backordered. Im wondering if i should just get aftermarket or stay with Ford. Anyway, could someone just summurize what i will have to do and what tools i will need to bring them home. I remember seeing a thread somewhere here about how to remove the follower so if someone could just summarize what to do after removing the followers and that thread please. Thanx a lot guys, really appreciatet this.

One other thing, one reason why i think its my head gasket is that my oil pressure guage has been acting funny lately and going lower than i've seen before. I do beleive my IVR for my gauges is jacked up as i have pointed out on earlier threads with my water temp gauge acting funny too. But my oil pressure has always been on the farthest right edge of normal and now once it warms up it slowly moved down to M and once in a while it will drop to the O and not go lower. I get worried then and try to keep the RPMs above 3K and eventually the needle will rise back to normal. But sometimes even while cruising at 65mph in 5th gear for 10 miles or so it will start to drop again even as far as the O even though my RPMs are constant so i downshift to 4th for a while and after a few minutes it will rise back up. I dunno, confused, trying not to worry too much since i think my IVR has crapped out right?

[kiwi]

Izzy....

..before that IVR, check your system voltage with a meter EO & running with all accessories/ my recent probs with alt affects the system....

[turbizzy]

Mike, will do the sending unit ASAP.

Kiwi, as soon as its running again ill check.