ok its close but i have questions and yes i searched.

[boostedbruiser]

Ok i have a 85 SVO with all 86 components IE PE comp, brown tops, square intake, 255 pump, holley FPR, different t-3 turbo, 3 in down pipe,A237 cam, light Port and polish, TBird intercooler, etc.
My problem is i'm running lean on the top end and pinging even at 15 PSI in premium mode. in regular it pings ever so slightly in 4th / 5th. Currently knock sensor is disconnected(yes i know what det. sounds like)
I have the base timing at 10BTDC and fpr is at 42 lbs. i have a fuel pressure gauge and can verify that fuel is rising with boost. if i connect the KS it acts as advertised and takes out alot of timing. the car feels like poop with it connected. I'm running 93 octane and 104 Black bottle.

I know i can't be running out of injector at least for what i'm aiming for(300 flywheel horse).

So my question is could the VAM or TPS settings screw up the comp and not have the injectors run at full duty cycle? i haven't verified the voltages yet, and will be tomorrow. I do have a 60 mm TB out of a later model stang(i believe, i didn't install previous owner did).

Oh other important info. i'm running a bobs log and it doesn't have EGR port(gonna fix it soon) so i know mid throttle pinging could happen but mine pings at WOT. the car feels good 1-3rd but gives up through4th and 5th. i installed a A/f gauge(autometer LED) and i can't get the car to peg the meter. i can only light up 2 green bars. So what the heck is going on? i even changed the comp with another PE i have just to rule out the comp and the same performace is happening.

I've been reading for days on turbobird, turboford and this website looking for info, but haven't found an answer.

I know the car COULD run like a scalded dog, but for now its running like a wet puppy.
Could my injectors be so dirty that they are screwing up?

Sorry to write a novel but i am stumped. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks guys

Oh and yes i have a new distributor, cap, rotor, wires and plugs. only the plugs are NGK 2238's

[jayG]

Has the pinging just recently started? I have basically have the set up you have and my car runs alittle fat at 19#'s and will run 24#'s w/out pinging usually, but thats with 95 octane. However I recently came across some bad gas(93) and the car pinged just as you described yours is doing. So I put a/b 2/3rds of a gallon of Touline in with a/b 3/4 tank and it cured the problem. So you may have bad gas or not enough octane? Also you may be running to much timming when in premium mode as opposed to regular mode. It sounds like you have a good set up so you are right, it shouldnt be pinging.


Oh, switch to motorcraft or autolite spark plugs. Cant explain it but thats just what these cars like.

[SVOeric]

the only way to prove you are running lean is to put it on a wideband -- (while on a dyno is a nice time to use it as well)

those autometer light flashey gauges aren't real accurate.

You may, as Jay G just said, be having octane problems ... I have heard that with all the recent gas problems, hurricanes, and everything else going on, the fuel quality in the last few months has gond down considerably.

[kyle shaw]

Just a thought but.

My car was doing the same thing, everything was working properly and I even had ford secondary ignition part's.

After further investigation I found that the VAM had been opened up at one time. The top was sealed back on with clear silicone sealant.

I tossed a good spare on the car and it fixed my detonation problem.

Just a thought.

kyle

[GAboySVO]

Have you run the codes yet? Do that and let us know what you find.

Get rid of those NGK's and get some Motorcraft or Autolite plugs!

Do a base idle adjustment and set your TPS between 0.90 - 0.95 volts. Check the FAQ section.

[boostedbruiser]

ok i 'm gonna run the tps and vam test here in a few minutes, as for the plugs I'm sorry, but i have had nothing BUT SUCCESS with NGK plugs. I need a better reason other than JUST BECAUSE ITS NOT MOTORCRAFT, to change the plugs. Heck even my VW runs better on NGKS. So thank you for the input, I know these cars are picky. but i'm having a fuel delivery problem, not a missing , or backfire problem. The car idles fine, runs good, just loss of power up top and pings.

On another note i put a vacume gauge on the car an notice that i'm only pulling 16" of vacume. Would it be this low because of the A237 Cam? other people with this cam could let me know. I played with the vacume lines and couldn't find any leaking or broken. i found a line that was disconnected underneath the VAM, but no vacume is being pulled through it.

Oh and about fuel. My problem has been this way since i got the car. (only a month ago) I'm been reading and working feverishly, trying to get the car to be all it can be(damn army brain washing), but its still got issues.

I don't want to throw parts at it but i need some advice.
I wish i had more time this week to install my WBO2. but that will have to wait till i get back. I guess i'll know more once i get that gizmo installed.

thanks for any advice, and maybe i'll change the plugs, but i honestly can't see how its causing my detonation. if theres a good explaination for plugs and pre-ignition, please enlighten me, as i'm definitely no expert, just trying to get by.

[GAboySVO]

I need a better reason other than JUST BECAUSE ITS NOT MOTORCRAFT, to change the plugs.

There is a reason. It is called experience!

" But I just changed the plugs"

"Brand new Split fires"

Chuck Hammer just before his car improved by 25Hp or so on the dyno

(after a plug change with Motorcraft plugs)

[boostedbruiser]

ok , but on to my question how does plugs make the car ping? i can see if it was missing or had rough idle, sparatic backfiring, but i have none of this. just pinging on the topend.

Just to amuse myself and prove you correct i'll change the plugs.Do i have to go to ford? cause if so it'll be 3 weeks before the plugs get changed :-(

[Pat_in_L.A.]

No, you don't have to go to Ford.

Gyrhead.com sells 4 AGSF-32C plugs for $6.75 per set of four. He has other Motorcraft tune up items for a similarly nice price.

As far as "how do plugs make the car ping", look up "Paaschen's Law" (The fornula for how a spark will jump a gap in a particular atmosphere and pressure) . I have distributed a really neat chart in the last two years at the Reunion that explains many things about dielectric limits and Paaschen's Law. Anything above a certain KV and cylinder pressure will misfire no matter what you do or think it will do.

There was more than one car that gained benefit from a plug change on the Reunion dyno day 2005. In my opinion, Bosch Platinums are the worst. Cheap plugs are a disposeable item, like toilet paper. Expensive plugs cause you to justify their expense and try to prove why you paid so much more.

And yes, I had noticed on my trip (last year vs. this year) how the premuim gas in the underground tanks at the fuel stops really degraded.

[SVOeric]

but i'm having a fuel delivery problem

and how have you come to this conclusion ??
Like I said -- the only way to prove you are going lean is a wideband. -- a car will ping, without going lean

[boostedbruiser]

well i don't know that i'm going lean yet, have to install my WB. I have a hard time believing that if i run the same configuration as some of the people on this board, that my setup can't even handle 15PSI of boost.

I've triple checked timing , spout out, triple check fuel pressure(have guage permanant in car), triple check tps, VAM,etc...

what am i missing? i just pulled the plugs and the look good except for a little reddish color, but i did some b-12 additive to help clean the injectors. i've filled gas at plenty of gas stations trying to find the best gas, but it doesn't seem to matter.it just pings. I guess i'll try the motorcraft plugs and see if it helps. I'll be shocked if it changes anything. I can believe plugs help, but keep the engine from pinging?

as for running codes, well i don't have a reader, and I'm out of time unitl next month (job).

i know the car has a bunch of potential, its just not there yet.

when get back i'll get my WB installed and then run codes. i'll get back to ya'll and tell you the results. thanks gents for all the help.

[SVOeric]

Don't call that autometer led gauge a wide-band -- cause it ain't even close...

[boostedbruiser]

I know the autometer isn't a wideband. I'm insulted that you even think i'm that dumb. I have this WBO2 controller.
i only put the autometer in for quick reference. either way, if i wasn't running lean, i should be able to peg the LED's on the little meter.

Thanks for the info though.

[jayG]

Originally posted by boostedbruiser
ok , but on to my question how does plugs make the car ping? :-(

Ok, I'll try to explain how a plug can induce detonation under a steady state, high load operation. Now this is what Ive read from a news letter from another car club. According to what the Marine industry has discovered with boats that are supercharged inboards, a non-extended tip spark plug is used to lessen the chance of detenatoin. The reason for this is that the shorter the ground strap electrode the heat path is correspondingly shorter and there's less chance for the strap to turn into a "glow plug" if the engine goes lean. Im not saying thats whats happening in your case, Im just trying to answer your question.


OMG! Im starting to sound like Mike Flemming here.....must....stay...strong.....must....stop... .getting....technical.

[SVOeric]

don't be insulted -- it's a a/f gauge, and it SHOULD work, if you read the hype-- but it's not much compared to a WB...

JayG -- have another glass of dat cheap wine -- it will help -- kill off the weak brain cells --