Cam Synchronizer

[s8v4ovic]

So Fitz: Give me some pointers on using the synchronizer with the Haltech. Please.

S8v4ovic: Thanks for that find!! I echo what you have to say on the difference in the sensors. I can run waste spark and semi-sequential or batch with just the crank sensor. I need the cam sensor to tell me when I'm coming up to number 1 on the compression stroke. The crank sensor only tells me when I'm coming up to #1 and #4 but not which one is on the compression stroke.

I thinks that right.

Bob

Thanks for wording it better...lol!

[SVOeric]

Because the crank spins twice for every one time on the cam. Otherwise you are right, the crank wheel would do both.

I'm supprised you can't program the MS to handle that, but then, you'd have to have something else (like you said, single tooth on the cam) so the MS could figure out which stroke you're on when it starts.

at some point, I might consider putting a stand-alone in my black car. I'd like to see how much difference SEFI could really make.

[Horsewidower]

Eric: That's essentially what the synchronizer is doing. Its the single tooth on the cam. We could have just as easily put a magnet on the cam pulley, at the right spot, and picked it up with a sensor, and that would have told the computer where cylinder #1 is located.

[fastmonkeywheels]

MS isn't setup to do sequential fuel because it's only really needed for super high HP applications. The type of applications where you need to set the timing for each cylinder independent of the others because the crank is twisting and each piston is in a different position relative to another.

It brings about a little better idle quality but not drastically noticeable. The only reasons MS does sequential spark for up to a 6cyl is because you need 6-outputs to do a V12 and 4 to do a V8 waste-spark. The MS processor also doesn't have any spare PWM outputs to do more than 2 fuel injectors.

If you're making enough power to require sequential-fuel you defiantly need something more than MS, like I said we're talking about the crank twisting differently between cylinders. For something under 800hp I'd say MS is just fine. Tuning sequential fuel is much more complicated too. Talk about hundreds of hours to reap the benefits it offers.

[SVOeric]

I never said I was making enough power to need sefi, I was thinking it would be fun to play with

so basically, all you're doing is emulating a pip signal with the synchroniser. that makes sense now.

And I have learned something, because before this thread, I never knew that synchroniser existed. I believe I've seen the same thing done with a stock dizzy, with all the extra 'junk' cut out of it, just using the hall-effect sensor in it.

Bottom line is, if you're doing DIS, you're going to need crank, and cam sensors. not really a way to get away without it.

[fastmonkeywheels]

I have a hacked up dizzy that I was going to try...then the SVO came my way and I need to get it functional before I can play with that again.

To go DIS you only need a crank sensor, since you fire the coils in batches 1&4 and 2&3, you only need the cam sensor for sequential coils or sequential fuel, the latter MS can't do. BTW, you can run individual coils (i.e. LS1 coils) in wastespark, you don't have to go to sequential ignition to take advantage of COP's (or near COP's).

[Horsewidower]

Eric: We were running DIS with only the crank sensor, waste spark and semi-sequential FI or batch, no cam synchronizer. Going to fully sequential has very limited benefits for the limited amount of HP we are allowed to make in American Iron. We would like to give it a try more from a curiosity stand point than an expectation of improved performance (of course at this point anything would be an improvement in performance!). When we go to AIX, though and we are trying to make double the HP, the experience we've gained will be worth it.

[fitzmotor]

Ok, looking into the cam sensor connector with the clip on top, 1st on left is ground (common with the crank sensor) to the blue wire pin #4 on the Haltech 26 pin connector or the gray shielded wire dedicated to the crank/cam, 2nd from left is cam sensor input/home signal to green #2 on the same Haltech conn also in the gray loom, skip the 3rd pin, 4th pin (far right) is 12V red to pin #11 same connector same loom.
NOW where it kicked my *** was in setting the rising/falling edge signal, it would not work like it should, I called Haltech, they said to try it both ways and go with what works (how scientific) so I set it up as falling edge and tried it with the 1/2 moon tooth trailing (back edge) at 75* before, then rotated it 180* and it fired.....I know sounds kinda stupid, to give you some idea how I struggled with it, I finally got a piece of aluminum, drilled 4 holes in it screwed in 4 spark plugs hooked them up to the coils, grounded it, so as I went through setting up both triggers I would just hit the starter button, point my timing light at the crank pulley, verify it HAD spark at the RIGHT time, once I got it right it ran great and has been trouble free since.
If all of this seems like it's too mucking fuch....."no worries" as the Aussie from Haltech said, and in the end he was right.

[Horsewidower]

YOU ARE THE MAN!!!!!!

Thanks again Fitz, I'll get this turd running right yet!!

Thanks to everyone for their help.

Bob

[mdbreaux]

Rock Auto now handles the Cardone remanufactured Motorcraft "crankshaft angle sensor" from the 1995-1997 Ranger 2.3L, and this is an all American rebuild. Also, the Motorcraft pigtail for the 4 pin sensor plug is Motorcraft part WPT-207, which can be bought all over the Internet for around $30.00. I am working on this right now with MS2 and sequential LS2 coil ignition. I wanted to do it in case I go with Bigstuff3 later on, as it requires it.

[mdbreaux]

I am bringing this thread up again because I am dealing with this cam sensor right now and if anyone else is dealing with it or has dealt with it, I would like to talk to them. I need do do two things - (1) set sensor without the alignment tool and (2) get tach signal from sensor for stock SVO tach. I bought a Cardone unit, which is a reman. Motorcraft unit. However, it does not come with the alignemnt tool. The Doorman unit does come with the tool, but is a chinese unit. The tool can not be found anywhere.

[4CAMMER72]

im using a modified dizzy as a cam sync.... cut 3 of the 4 vanes off, set it to get its signal just before the crank trigger gets its signal and you are capable of sequential spark and fuel with megasquirt.

[mdbreaux]

I thought about doing that but I usually take the more difficult route for some unknown reason. I understand your procedure for setting it but wnother user saidd he set his with the engine 26 degreee ATDC. I would think it should be set with the engine BTDC so it would send the signal to the computer BTDC and then the computer could send the signal to ignite the coil so many degrees after that signal and this would all still be BTDC. This is something I am not understanding and I do not have the tool to set it so I need to understand this and set it wth my eyes and a meter. ???????? Also, doesn't the crank trigger send its signal BTDC also??

[Horsewidower]

Set it up so that the synchronizer signals prior to the total amount of advance that you intend to run.

i.e. if you intend to run 45* degrees BTDC as the most you intend to ever advance (cruise part of the map, maybe) than the minimum you want the signal to occur is 55*BTDC.

I set mine to signal just shy of 90* btdc.

We made the error, on our first attempt, to set it so that the cam synch would signal right at TDC on the #1 cylinder. This made the computer think that the first firing event was actually on cylinder 3. Clearly didn't work.

I'm not an MS user, per my previous posts. the Haltech gives you the ability to count the cam synch events. We just watched the computer, while turning the engine, and waited for the count to trip. When it did, we checked the position of the crank to see how many degrees BTDC the event occurred. Then adjusted the Cam Synch to the desired location. Then checked again. You have a pretty wide window to play with.

[mdbreaux]

Now that makes perfect sense. I think that is 100% better than usig the synch tool that I can't find anyway. Thanks for confirming that. I was thinking something like that but since I have never done it, I had no idea if I was thinking somehing crazy. I think Bo uses Haltech also. I just decided to try MS2 and if that does not work, I am going with Bigstuff3. I have BS3 on my Camaro and it is great, but I did not want to spend the money. I think MS2 will work wel. Thanks again for that. I needed to get that exact info. Michael